Ack...confusing AK hand....

[aK13]

My only read is that a couple hands ago I raised A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the hijack, and he 3bet me with red JJ OTB. Flop was 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], check/bet/call, turn was an A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], check/bet/call, river 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], check/(hesitate)bet/call.

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Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>

call down and catch a T. i would have bet the flop though to see what he does.

[kapw7]

Why did you check? Slowplay? to check-raise?

I prefer betting out

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you check? Slowplay? to check-raise?

I prefer betting out

[/ QUOTE ]

are you folding to a raise? there are few 3-betting PRF hands you're ahead of right now. seems like a WA/B line to me.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
there are few 3-betting PRF hands you're ahead of right now. seems like a WA/B line to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure we're ahead an equal number that we're behind. TT and AQs are the questions for me - particularly TT. (There are only 2 ways left for AQs, so it doesn't make as much of a difference.)

If we include both, I get 9 that we're ahead of, 9 we're behind, and 6 we're tied with. If we include one but not the other, it makes a difference. If we don't include TT, you're basically screwed as you're only ahead of KK.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
seems like a WA/B line to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

[@bsolute_luck]

i guess i have a "looser" 3-betting range being 8-handed and i loosened it up even more for our comparison:

Loose
WA: KK(3), TT(6), 99(6), 88(6), AT(6), KJ(9): 36
WB: AA(1), QQ(3),JJ(3), AQ(6), AJ(6), KQ(9), QJ(9): 37
Tied: AK(6)

Tight:
WA: KK(3), TT(6), 99(6): 15
WB: AA(1), QQ(3), JJ(3), AQ(6), AJ(6), KQ(9): 28
Tied: AK(6)

so the tighter we go, the worse it gets as. so looking at the rest of the hand/board:

we have the nut BDFD and probably full 4 outs for the straight, but i'm really doubting that if we hit our A or K that we're winning this hand. so that is 5.5 outs and getting 8.5:1 to peel(which is break even), i'll call this flop bet, but i don't like betting out as we're either getting reraised by a better hand, folding hands we want to continue to bet, or possibly getting slowplayed by a better hand that could fear a better hand than his but not enough to fold.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
i guess i have a "looser" 3-betting range being 8-handed and i loosened it up even more for our comparison:

Loose
WA: KK(3), TT(6), 99(6), 88(6), AT(6), KJ(9): 36
WB: AA(1), QQ(3),JJ(3), AQ(6), AJ(6), KQ(9), QJ(9): 37
Tied: AK(6)

Tight:
WA: KK(3), TT(6), 99(6): 15
WB: AA(1), QQ(3), JJ(3), AQ(6), AJ(6), KQ(9): 28
Tied: AK(6)

[/ QUOTE ]
This is nice. Part of the differences in our process (I just used AA-TT, AKs/o and AQS) is that I'm still only at 0.5/1. Certainly there are players there who (like us) will 3-bet those hands you listed, but I don't see many of them.

Also, in your hand ranges, do 99, 88, and some of the other weaker hands continue betting this flop? Sure, in the previous hand with this villain, he continued betting with an A on the river, but this board is much scarier to anyone wihtout a pretty strong hand.

[@bsolute_luck]

i came up with my range because it is 8-handed, so i just put in some 6-max hand-guesstimates.

would 88,99 such hands continue to bet that flop? i don't know, but most players continuation bet after the 3-bet, it is HU, and it is checked to them. would red JJ continuation bet when an A falls on the turn or when there are 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s on the table? he did, so i'm just guessing here.

and either loose or tight range, doesn't change the the flop suggestion to bet out, which is what i'm disaggreeing with.

[numeri]

Ah - sorry to miss your point! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

What line do you suggest? I've been taking these too passively, because I'm tempted to play it as a draw. I know it's weak, but I get lost in these situations.