A Question For Christians

[wiggs73]

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It does not answer his question, actually. See below:

http://www.infidelguy.com/modules.ph...22&start=0
http://jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html
http://jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html#tacitus

-Travas :-)

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Eh, here... I can already see how we're going to end up on this one though. You'll find another source to refute my source, then I'll find another to refute yours, repeat, repeat, etc. Bleh, no use in this sort of dialogue, I'm sure there is evidence out there that Jesus existed and, likewise, evidence that Jesus didn't exist. Just understand that you are in the extreme minority by believing that Jesus didn't exist, at least in a historical sense. There definitely is evidence that he did that cannot be thorougly enough refuted to make it uncredible. If you would like to debate his diety, I'm up for it, but I see no use in wasting more time on what seems to be a silly debate about his historical existence. I understand there will be extremist views on this, as there are for everything else, but I honestly do not see how you couldn't believe that Jesus once existed, regardless of whether or not he was 'holy'. And yes, I've read many many sources both for and against this claim.

Anyway, enough on this. To end on a lighter note, happy pokering to you and may all your hands be aces (aces do exist, right?). [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[FrankieFish]

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I often point people to primary sources, but rarely do they actually read them.

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No need to be a missionary freethinker.

I have a Baptist friend who puts it like this: "As a Christian, my duty is to please God. It won't please God if I read heretical things like the story of Horus, or the Sumerian 'adama,' or... [whatever else I've suggested]"

Me: "The reason I suggest those is that they all precede the stories you like so much."

Him: "Well, those weren't written by God."


You gotta go after the kids, Lude. Write children's books that quell the impulse to say "baaaa-aaaaaaa-aaaa-aaa."

[Carl_William]

David -- you limited the choices in your multiple-guess contest to:

”””A. Almost or just as bad (as no God)

B. Even Worse

C. Moderately Bad

D. Mildly Upsetting but Tolerable

E. Not Answerable because even entertaining the possibility is blasphemous”””



I suggest that you add:

F. It would be wonderful to know that the Christian Faith is based on a false foundation.




David – you mention (have mentioned) the Old Testament: I just want to mention a few things. Evidently you are a bible scholar – at least to some advanced degree. Otherwise you would not put questions “A Questions for Christians” up for discussion. Evidently you are aware that starting with the time of Ptolemy Philadelphus (the successor of Alexander-the-Great) About 200 B.C., Jewish scholars(maybe seventy) were commissioned and thereafter contributed to the great library of Alexandria (in Egypt) by coming up with a standard canon of Jewish scripture and a standard version of each book in that canon. These books were originally written in Greek – as you might guess because of Alexander’s influence. The 46 books initially created were called the Septuagint or abbreviated as LXX. With some revisions (I suspect), and translated by Jewish scholars to the Hebrew and /or Aramaic up until the time of Christ. It is accepted that these books were universally used by Jews until the time of Christ. After Christ, about the year 70 AD, the Roman boss Titus, put down a Jewish rebellion, destroyed their Temple, and stole the Temple furnishings and took the Ark of the Covenant to Rome. Also most of the early Christians were Jews (Paul seemed to be almost the first Christian convert to openly welcome Gentiles and Pagans to join Christianity). It is thought that because of the fact that many Jews were becoming Christians; that the some of the passages in the Old Testament were revised to stem (to slow down) this exodus by Jews to the Christian faith. David, I’m sure you are familiar with the Jamnian canon – the modified version of the Old Testament; which came about after the advent of Christ. Getting back to you multiple choice survey….

(repeating myself): I suggest that you add:

G. It would be wonderful to know that the Christian Faith is based on a false foundation.

WHY?....

Why do I suggest this? Because of weak FAITH of many Christian (not all), it might make life so much easier to be relieved of the grips of Christianity; namely: “Love God above all things, and our neighbors as ourselves.” Why should we do this? Maybe….

We could go back to stoning adulteresses. David, for instance, when did the Old Testament change this law, and forbid the stoning of people guilty of adultery? This would have to be the New Old Testament.

But David you seem to be partial to the Old Testament? But you implied that Jews and Muslims were slightly less morons than Christians. You put down Jews (religious Jews I presume) and Muslims, and then put down Christians to an even bigger degree. How do you classify pagans and atheists – as people with a higher IQ than those you put down? I don’t understand your logic? You mentioned that you have some “Big Guns” in reserve. Evidently you have these big guns and can use them if you really have to prove your philosophy. Well, spit them out and let people know about them. Certify that Christianity is a big fraud. Actually…

David, I think you are probably a very caring person. I presume you made your living in phases; poker; writing about poker; (and with the gradual and current popularity of poker on the Internet & TV – a much more sufficient living: poker and gambling books); and because rather well known poker players get invited to play in juicy tournaments. But still something is lacking to make you more happy. I think you are still searching. I hope you find your peace.

[Quaalude]

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It does not answer his question, actually. See below:

http://www.infidelguy.com/modules.ph...22&start=0
http://jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html
http://jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html#tacitus

-Travas :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, here... I can already see how we're going to end up on this one though. You'll find another source to refute my source, then I'll find another to refute yours, repeat, repeat, etc. Bleh, no use in this sort of dialogue, I'm sure there is evidence out there that Jesus existed and, likewise, evidence that Jesus didn't exist. Just understand that you are in the extreme minority by believing that Jesus didn't exist, at least in a historical sense. There definitely is evidence that he did that cannot be thorougly enough refuted to make it uncredible. If you would like to debate his diety, I'm up for it, but I see no use in wasting more time on what seems to be a silly debate about his historical existence. I understand there will be extremist views on this, as there are for everything else, but I honestly do not see how you couldn't believe that Jesus once existed, regardless of whether or not he was 'holy'. And yes, I've read many many sources both for and against this claim.

Anyway, enough on this. To end on a lighter note, happy pokering to you and may all your hands be aces (aces do exist, right?). [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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*rolleyes*

I actually came across this same "tektonics" website before. It tries real hard, but just doesn't quite get there. It does not effectively refute the links I gave. For the three or four people that will actually read any signifigant chunk of any of them; they can come to informed conclusions themselves. Everyone else will belive what they want. I hardly have the time to rehash the minutiae of such a debate. There is poker to be played.

The fact that I may be in a minority because of my views is hardly anything new, and certainly not something that bothers me in any way. Large numbers of people believing in something does not make it any more true (argumentum ad numerum). And casting my views as "extremist" adds nothing to the discussion, and is another logical fallacy (argumentum ad temperantiam). Perhaps you should read up on them.

Have a nice day,

-Travas :-)

[Emmitt2222]

I would lean more towards F because many things can't be reconciled by this, but just as a thought exercise I'll just ignore all of the contrasting things.

I would say that if I were given undeniable proof that God existed as the Jews believe Him to, but not as Christians do then I would be happy to know what the truth is because all I want to do in life is follow God to the best of my ability so that I may share eternity with Him... so I think that boils down to G which you didnt include. I would not be upset, but happy to live in the Truth.

Of course then where would the faith be because you would know for sure? and that would mean that Jesus was just a liar or a lunatic and He would be in hell so none of this stuff works out but I tried.

[FrankLu99]

What if you found undeniable and irrefutable proof that God exists. In addition, what if you found out that Jesus is God and that the Bible is true and accurate.

How would that make you feel?

[Guruman]

the core of all religion (and judaism and christianity in particular) is faith.

Faith is the belief in something in the abscence of evidence. In order to have faith, one must put aside his reason and choose to believe something that he has know way of knowing one way or the other. People often do this because others tell them of their own faith in these things. Ex: A man's parents believed that when you die your concious soul wallows forever in ketchup until you can write out pi in its entirety. In his childhood he attends a church that supports these beliefs and he is indoctrinated. He then spends most of his waking life trying to get a head start on longwriting pi.

There is of course, no evidence that this will be his fate should he die. He just believes it because he was told to.

If I found out for sure that God not only exists, but is the God of Judaism - I guess I'd be dead already. This is because to know for sure, one needs evidence - and the evidence can only come after death when one supposedly meets his maker.

Therefore the question is moot (with the unlikely exception of God existing and showing himself to you before death.)

[Skip Brutale]

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Assuming no punishment for being Christian when I should have been Jewish, Id be more upset to find out that God did not exist.

Stu

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this is something that i think so many people have wrong. religion isnt about punishment. that is just what people tend to equate it to be about. as humans we are operating on limited information about what is right and what is wrong (religion wise). there is one common theme amongst christianity, judaism, and islam. that is that there is a god and he loves you like a father loves a son. if this is in fact true, then, why would he want to punish you for eternity just because you were a little misinformed even though you were a good person on the whole?

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Because it says that in the bible. I'm sorry but Christians are just going to have to believe their own religion in my opinion.

[BadBoyBenny]

Why no poll?

[felson]

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Therefore the question is moot (with the unlikely exception of God existing and showing himself to you before death.)

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This is the sort of thing that Frank was talking about.