Folding the river for one bet with top pair...

[ElSapo]

Two limpers, and the SB raises. I call in the BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

SB is multi-tabling and TAGish, and though I don't know him I think he's probably a good player. Just my initial reaction.


Flop is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB bets, I raise, one cold-caller, and the SB three-bets. We both call.

Turn is a 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], SB bets, I call and the other player calls.

River is a 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], SB bets and I fold...


EDIT for typo.

[jt1]

so why would you do that? the river isn't scary at all. You just want to be reamed, don't you?

SB may have KT or KJ for all you know. Or even a pissed off QQ.

[bnorthro]

I really hope that was a misclick....

[Peter Harris]

Hmm. with the PFR, the 3 bet and the turn donk, I doubt SB has QQ-99. It looks like KQ for a chop, AA.

It crossed my mind that A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] would play this way, with a bet on the busted draw.

However, that's unlikely with two opponents to bluff out.

I think the river fold is not heinous. Far from it. Whether I'd fold it is another matter, but I'm a megadonkey.

EDIT: given other responses, I'd like to know if the villain has a history of overplaying pockets vs a board overcard; what sort of SD% gone to etc. I agree that KJs, KJo, KTs and maybe KTo play this way; I am still sceptical 99-QQ would be played so TAGtardy, but it's a possibility.

I still don't know for sure if the fold is goot or not...
As ramrod says, you're getting 19-1 on a river call, but a player is still to act behind you, right? Hmm.

[ElSapo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the river fold is not heinous. Far from it. Whether I'd fold it is another matter, but I'm a megadonkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

You and I may be the only ones to not think it's awful. I'm not saying it's right — and after reading these responses, I'd call next time — but I don't think it's as bad as some say. Betting the river into two players, and the SB raise, and the TAG-ish playing, says he's got a real hand to me.

But next time, yeah, I'll probably call.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]

You and I may be the only ones to not think it's awful. I'm not saying it's right — and after reading these responses, I'd call next time — but I don't think it's as bad as some say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Allow me to use this opportunity to mention one of my pet peeves (not directed at anyone in particlar). I see little point when people lambaste a particular decision as "awful," or some other derogatory term. If the decision is wrong, who cares what degree of "bad" it is? It's fine to specify multiple reasons why a decision is wrong; but I get aggravated when they just proclaim that something is "absurd" or "heinous," as if the stronger language somehow makes their position more convincing.

Anyway, so long as you understand that the decision is incorrect, that's what's important.

[ElSapo]

[ QUOTE ]
If the decision is wrong, who cares what degree of "bad" it is?

[/ QUOTE ]

In some ways, you're right. But in poker we can try and affix a range of hands and probabilities and work out the general EV of a decision.

[Wynton]

Well, here I think most people are saying that the river fold is wrong, based on probable hands. All I'm saying is that, once we conclude the decision is -ev, nothing is gained by the additional, inflammatory labels.

(Incidentally, looking back at this thread, I don't think anyone used such terms here, though it certainly happens frequently.)

[jba]

if you don't have odds to call the river, I don't see how you have odds to call the turn.

my point is you should call the river, KJ is very possible here.

[ElSapo]

[ QUOTE ]
if you don't have odds to call the river, I don't see how you have odds to call the turn.

my point is you should call the river, KJ is very possible here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think KJs is the only reasonable hand I beat here, though a chop is possible. He's a good player raising two limpers out of the SB and he's done nothing but bet and raise.

I called the turn not trying to spike, but still trying to work out if I was behind. When he bets the river, I think I'm not winning.