Reasonable shot at protection?

deception5 · #1 11-24-2005, 03:38 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (19 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises...

Nick C · #2 11-24-2005, 03:46 AM

Oh boy. I don't know. That's a lot of opponents, and I doubt you have the best hand. I kind of doubt you even have Button beat.

But the pot's big, so the reward is substantial when Button doesn't have you beat and you scare away a pocket underpair or two and your potentially expensive play does work.

#3 11-24-2005, 03:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (19 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises...

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Im not sure what your trying to protect? I lay this hand down as I can't see you having any clean outs. Someone is going to call with a K and any A4, A5 will also call. Your changes of wining this hand with that many people seeing the flop are very low IMO.

Im not giving advice, im new to limit and am giving my thought process.

private joker · #4 11-24-2005, 03:50 AM

What are you trying to protect? A payoff hand like AQ? If Button has AK or KQ, you're drawing slim to dead. Even if he has JJ/TT you have 6 dirty outs plus a backdoor prayer. I'd peel if you're feeling saucy, or else just fold. This flop sucks for you and there are a lot of opponents to get through.

deception5 · #5 11-24-2005, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh boy. I don't know. That's a lot of opponents, and I doubt you have the best hand. I kind of doubt you even have Button beat.

But the pot's big, so the reward is substantial when Button doesn't have you beat and you scare away a pocket underpair or two and your potentially expensive play does work.

[/ QUOTE ]

This pretty much summed up my thoughts here. I think there's a good chance of folding hands that beat me, like 4x/5x/pocket pairs. There are also very few draws as it's a rainbow board and the only straight draw is with 2 low cards or A2/A3. I also have a really good chance of folding hands like JT which have 6 outs but will be very unlikely to call 2 with an overcard on the board.

I have a backdoor flush draw, really weak backdoor straight draw and an overcard which is actually cleaner than if there were no king on the board, but I think I will find out very quickly if the button has AA/KK/AK. My queen needs to be discounted heavily, although there's a decent chance the button has something like JJ/TT (or even AQ/AJ/ATs).

If the pot weren't 20SB I would go ahead and fold but I figured it was worth raising here. Since I have odds to call on my bdfd alone if I can clean up any outs with a raise it may be worth it.

QTip · #6 11-24-2005, 04:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (19 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm looking forward to thinking about this one. At first glance, I think I like it.

This has some simularities and some twists and this post I made yesterday.

Cool...I need a few minutes to muddle through some things on it.

QTip · #7 11-24-2005, 05:01 PM

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potentially expensive play

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Just because we raise here, doesn't mean we have to put any bets in on later streets.

Of course, if we catch a start to one of our back doors, and get caught between some aggressors, yeah...that's always fun.

QTip · #8 11-24-2005, 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh boy. I don't know. That's a lot of opponents, and I doubt you have the best hand. I kind of doubt you even have Button beat.

But the pot's big, so the reward is substantial when Button doesn't have you beat and you scare away a pocket underpair or two and your potentially expensive play does work.

[/ QUOTE ]

This pretty much summed up my thoughts here. I think there's a good chance of folding hands that beat me, like 4x/5x/pocket pairs. There are also very few draws as it's a rainbow board and the only straight draw is with 2 low cards or A2/A3. I also have a really good chance of folding hands like JT which have 6 outs but will be very unlikely to call 2 with an overcard on the board.

I have a backdoor flush draw, really weak backdoor straight draw and an overcard which is actually cleaner than if there were no king on the board, but I think I will find out very quickly if the button has AA/KK/AK. My queen needs to be discounted heavily, although there's a decent chance the button has something like JJ/TT (or even AQ/AJ/ATs).

If the pot weren't 20SB I would go ahead and fold but I figured it was worth raising here. Since I have odds to call on my bdfd alone if I can clean up any outs with a raise it may be worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm on board with this.

Please post the rest of the hand in here at some point, as I'm interested to see how it played out.

Thanks.

QTip · #9 11-24-2005, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What are you trying to protect? A payoff hand like AQ? If Button has AK or KQ, you're drawing slim to dead. Even if he has JJ/TT you have 6 dirty outs plus a backdoor prayer. I'd peel if you're feeling saucy, or else just fold. This flop sucks for you and there are a lot of opponents to get through.

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I'd be amazed if we don't have a lot of situations here where we have more than 10% equity. Folding now gives up 2sb. Might as well make the best of em and do what you can.

QTip · #10 11-24-2005, 05:22 PM

Even getting another A, a 2, 3 or 6 to fold would have some value, even though it's slight.