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  #11  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:01 AM
michw michw is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

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The thing I hate about this situation is that the aggressor comes from the blinds. Had it been another, I'd be more inclined to call

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I like this thinking. If the villian is in middle position I call most of the time.
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:03 AM
lacky lacky is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

If you wont play that hand for all your chips when you flop top pair on a completely safe flop, dont waste the 15 chips calling anymore.
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:05 AM
gildwulf gildwulf is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

I think this is a very bad fold, especially at the 30s where JT, QJ and KJ push on this flop. Against a hand range of JJ, 66, 22, KJs, QJs, JTs, KJo, QJo, and JTo you are a 2-1 favorite. If you add in J2s, J2o, J6s, J6o it's a coinflip in your favor; if you add in 62s and 62o he is a 55/45 favorite. I think against his range with no reads you should definitely call.
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:11 AM
gildwulf gildwulf is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

Also, it is rare sets are played that fast, especially the overbet all-in.
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  #15  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:17 AM
KKbluff KKbluff is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

I'd call as well.
Most of the time your going to be ahead so I could justify calling.
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  #16  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:19 AM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

[ QUOTE ]
If you wont play that hand for all your chips when you flop top pair on a completely safe flop, dont waste the 15 chips calling anymore.

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Ouch.
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  #17  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:21 AM
Scuba Chuck Scuba Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

[ QUOTE ]
If you wont play that hand for all your chips when you flop top pair on a completely safe flop, dont waste the 15 chips calling anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Second thought. I thought Ilya's point had very good merit.
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  #18  
Old 12-12-2005, 02:21 AM
gildwulf gildwulf is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you wont play that hand for all your chips when you flop top pair on a completely safe flop, dont waste the 15 chips calling anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch.

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
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  #19  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:40 AM
bigt439 bigt439 is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

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I don't think so, I think on this drawless flop you're usually hosed at the $30s after the 3-bet all-in.

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By what? I doubt you will, but don't list off hands that beat you, list off why he played them like that and how often you think a player would play them like that.
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  #20  
Old 12-12-2005, 04:00 AM
ilya ilya is offline
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Default Re: Have I taken this folding thing too far?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so, I think on this drawless flop you're usually hosed at the $30s after the 3-bet all-in.

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By what? I doubt you will, but don't list off hands that beat you, list off why he played them like that and how often you think a player would play them like that.

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when the small blind leads out into this tiny multiway pot on a board that could easily get checked around, it makes me suspect that he's trying to build a pot. would it seem worth it to him to bet a marginal hand into this 4-way 60-chip pot, trying to take it down? i don't think so, not most of the time. so when he bets i think he has at least a Jack the large majority of the time.
the MP guy calls and then the LP guy makes a small raise. the SB has to figure it's pretty likely that at least one of his opponents has a Jack. the reason i think you're beat most of the time when he 3-bets is that i think the average player at this level doesn't expect his opponent to be able to fold any sort of decent Jack here. if our villain in fact thinks this way, he's quite likely to 3-bet here with a hand that can beat TPTK because he figures to get called, and doesn't want to lose his action to any one of 12 turn scare cards. buuut i dunno if he goes ahead and pushes with a hand like QJ or JT as eagerly, cos if one of his opponents has a Jack, it doesn't figure to be smaller than J9 or so. then again he might have expected AJ & KJ to raise in LP cos he would often have raised there himself.

hmmm i'm talking myself into a call as I go. still, i do think that you'll often see a better hand here for the reasons I gave.
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