Stud high/low starting hands

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As a beginner, playing lower limits, besides the normal high hands (Ts or better, 3 high suited cards, trips, ), what kind of hands can I start with while playing high/low stud?

From past success, I've been starting with any smooth 8 or better. Should I tighten up to say, 7s?

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[MikeBandy]

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As a beginner, playing lower limits, besides the normal high hands (Ts or better, 3 high suited cards, trips, ), what kind of hands can I start with while playing high/low stud?

From past success, I've been starting with any smooth 8 or better. Should I tighten up to say, 7s?

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I’ve thought about that, but decided it would be too tight. I’ll normally see fourth street with a smooth eight.

I have a little lower standard than you do for three suited cards. I’ll sometimes see fourth street if only two of them are high. My suit would have to be live (no more than two others out), I’d have to be in position, and I’d have to be able to see fourth street for no more than a small bet. If I don’t improve, I don’t draw any further.

I prefer to play for low. It’s surprising how often you’ll fill up and get the best high hand – not all that often, but it happens. Anyway, for me to play for high, I need a pair of kings or aces. Of course, I always enjoy being rolled up.

[Andy B]

Someone else just posted a decent list in another thread....

Tens are instant death. Jacks are usually a slow death. Three suited high cards aren't always that great. Your cards have to be live in order for you to even think about playing them.

Three-card Eights can be OK in the right spot. I think that high possibilities are more important than smoothness as such. 876 is a pretty good hand. 832 isn't that great. Having an Ace and a wheel card is frequently sufficient for me.

Three-card Sevens are playable more often than not, but you probably should toss something like 732 for a raise. Every year or two, someone will post a hand where a three-card Six should be tossed on third street.

So get Ray Zee's book. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Personally I don't play big pair except aces, certainly not in 2/4 games with an 0.25 ante - it's just isn't worth it. In those low ante low limit games which usually see 4-5 players each pot, it's better to wait for steel. If I'm in a late position and no callers (except maybe a 8-J) I might play Kings or Queens for a raise. Then you can usually take the pot on 4th if the hang arounds catch high (or bad, the T catches a 3 or something).
Zee's book and the chapter in Super System 2 are both great, but I think you should be even more tight because the theory includes high ante play. Stick to AAx (preferably with an 8 or below) and low cards with high potential like As 2s 8s ; 5s 6d 7c ; 2h 3h 5c. I usually play 3-flushes with one high if only one of my flush is out. A hand like 732 should only be played multiway when the others show 8 or higher. I think most money is lost with high pairs against several low hands and low 3 cards with no redraws for high like 863 rainbow when there are better lows out. GL!

[Andy B]

With respect to big pairs, I think that the most important difference between the games that Zee and Brunson may find themselves in and the games that most of us find ourselves in has to do with the relative tightness of the games rather than the ante size as such. A pair of Queens just isn't that strong in a five-way pot. It's pretty good in a heads-up pot, and you see more of those at higher limits than you do at lower limits.

I agree, the problem with a big pair in early pos is that you wont know how many people will play. If I catch a pair of queens in early pos and see a lot of low cards behind I probably will fold. In late pos I know more about if it's gonna be short-handed or multiway and a raise will probably not force those low draws out if they are plenty. I'm sure the game is differently played in high stakes, with few callers it's more like stud high, big pair go up in value. But I assumed the questioner was askin about low level games where the majority of the pots are played multiway,