I have started slowplaying some Top Pair Hands Head-Up, Like-IT? - Page 2

MAxx · #11 02-25-2005, 10:25 AM

thanks for the replies.

agree with some of what you said, but not all. i agree with spider's comments about maybe some better top pair hands to try this kind of thing with.

also agree with alobar, how i would be a little suspicious of this if i were the victim.

Nate- I am not sure that I took this concept out of context, though I will reread it. I will be sure to try and make some more "gay" sounding posts in the future, if that's the kind of thing you like to respond to. Whatever it takes to get good responses. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If we choose a better flop/ starting hand where it doesnt look as suspicious, why is it not a good play.

In my hand, for example, I think if I bet flop... I win it right there. It would be a small pot. Doesn't it make sense to mix up your play against aggressive opponents, and risk loseing a small pot for the risk of taking in some extra BB's?

Why are we afraid to slowplay this hand? What makes it mechanically poor play? We most likely have villain in bad shape and giving a free look at the turn is not going to hurt us most of the time. Isn't that what a slowplay is, letting your opponent catch up a little. Sure in full ring you would need a stronger hand, but head up... isn't this a monster I am holding?

Edit, It appears that maybe Nate was refering to Imitation taking the quote out of context... maybe. Anyway, I think I am picking up that my play may have been ok had villain led flop. Again though I'd be interested to hear why giving a free card here is so bad. Villain did take lead on turn, while I understand that I offered it to him.

3BB's here was a coup, no? Sure this was the best scenario. It could have also been good for just 1 or 2BB's.

MAxx · #12 02-25-2005, 12:46 PM

I reread the passage, and it is clear to me now that the passage refers to a totally different situation. It, like Nate states, refers to a situation where hero has top pair versus 2 opponents. One of these opponents it very aggresive and leads the flop. In this case it can be correct to slowplay. I see that this is not the situation i was in.

Nevertheless, It is a small pot and I have the opportunity to get some extra bets by checking flop and inducing action from an aggresive player.

Is the anwer why my play is wrong is that it ruins my future hands when I bet at the flop with nothing and/or I am unecessarily inviting dissaster?

Chobohoya · #13 02-25-2005, 12:53 PM

So hero's action here should be the old "bet-bet-bet"? At 5-10 and up, I've been trying to vary my play at least a little, not ALWAYS betting this flop, maybe 1/10 times i'll do it the way he just did.

Grisgra · #14 02-25-2005, 12:57 PM

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So hero's action here should be the old "bet-bet-bet"? At 5-10 and up, I've been trying to vary my play at least a little, not ALWAYS betting this flop, maybe 1/10 times i'll do it the way he just did.

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Yeah, I gotta confess that I mix this up too. You can say that it's ultra-suspicious to raise preflop and then check when an ace hits, and it is, but it's amazing how many people will think you're weak because you didn't bet the flop. Not everybody, maybe not even half of the people, but enough that this kind of play, while "gay", isn't obviously wrong to make every now and then.

kiddo · #15 02-25-2005, 01:02 PM

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I reread the passage, and it is clear to me now that the passage refers to a totally different situation. It, like Nate states, refers to a situation where hero has top pair versus 2 opponents. One of these opponents it very aggresive and leads the flop.

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Eh?

U qouted from page 204 right? And it states:

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two people check, you are last to act, and one of your opponents is an extremly aggressive player. You should always check...

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U are saying he leads the flop? Am I quoting from the wrong page?

The reason u shouldnt check is that if u have a style where not betting the flop in this spot dont give away your hand as a very good hand because you would never ever check a bad hand here you are playing with the wrong style. Of course u can always try checking against a player not thinking but it will do you little good since he is probably prepared to call flop with any2 anyway.

Nate tha' Great · #16 02-25-2005, 01:10 PM

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So hero's action here should be the old "bet-bet-bet"? At 5-10 and up, I've been trying to vary my play at least a little, not ALWAYS betting this flop, maybe 1/10 times i'll do it the way he just did.

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Yeah, I gotta confess that I mix this up too. You can say that it's ultra-suspicious to raise preflop and then check when an ace hits, and it is, but it's amazing how many people will think you're weak because you didn't bet the flop. Not everybody, maybe not even half of the people, but enough that this kind of play, while "gay", isn't obviously wrong to make every now and then.

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See, here's thing thing. You're not fooling anyone. They're making stupid bets and calls because they like to make stupid bets and calls. They'll do it anyway if you bet.

Grisgra · #17 02-25-2005, 01:24 PM

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They're making stupid bets and calls because they like to make stupid bets and calls. They'll do it anyway if you bet.

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I dunno. I like to give them a little encouragement every now and then [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

MAxx · #18 02-25-2005, 01:36 PM

kiddo-

ok, i don't want to butcher the passage anymore.

"two people check"

sounds like i got the check part correct orignially. however, i got the # of opponents wrong. My Hand was Head up, in the book example the pot was three way.

Nate, I hear your reasoning. And think it's correct in most cases.

Results: Villain has QTo. MHIG. He made a bad mistake, but I don't think he would have made that mistake had I bet the flop.

I think that it is possible I played this hand like a Donkey, but not totally convinced. My result could easily be not representative of what will normally happen in this spot. On the other hand, I think slowplaying top pair headsup could be profitable... allowing opponents to make mistakes on the expensive streets. Villain probably just called my river raise out of curiousity and slight fear of getting bluffed.

Thanks again for the input.

Chobohoya · #19 02-25-2005, 02:23 PM

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this kind of play, while "gay"

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Not that there's anything wrong with that.

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You can say that it's ultra-suspicious to raise preflop and then check when an ace hits, and it is, but it's amazing how many people will think you're weak because you didn't bet the flop.

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Agreed. So long as this is a very occaisional thing, I think they will be fooled sometimes. Again, I wouldn't recommend it at the 1-2 6-max, but 5-10 and up, yeah, do it ~1/10.

Topflight · #20 02-25-2005, 05:07 PM

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They're making stupid bets and calls because they like to make stupid bets and calls. They'll do it anyway if you bet.

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I dunno. I like to give them a little encouragement every now and then [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

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haha.. it was me. And I DO like to make stupid bets and calls. Although I think the flop check probably suckered me in here while my other three tables were beeping away.

I think calling the river raise from this guy was a disaster though. I probably should have just check called the river.