a 40-80 hollywood park hand

[smurfitup]

this hand came up a few months ago. my brother saw it and didn't think i played it well (especially the flop bet), what do you guys think?

villain is very loose/passive/straightforward. the game just got 6-handed and i'm not sure if he or the other players are factoring this into their play yet.

villain raises utg, co calls, hero reraises j [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]j [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] from sb, utg caps, co calls, hero calls.

flop is q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

hero bets, villain raises, co folds, hero calls.

turn is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

hero checks, villain bets, hero folds.

[poker1O1]

Pretty unique line, I actually like it a lot cuz I think it's a very good way to save some bets

[DcifrThs]

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Pretty unique line, I actually like it a lot cuz I think it's a very good way to save some bets

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save some bets?? after i 3bet from the sb and get capped i check fold that flop. period. he's passive, he'd have to have EXACTLY AK or TT for you to continue here. for mathematical reasons i think a bet works if you are 100% sure he's passive AND that he'd cap AK after getting 3bet from the blinds every time...i.e. if you really want to be sure he's got it then agreed, bet out...but fold to the ensuing raise. why call the flop? passive opponents call AK not raise it.

lets say he could have AK, AA-TT after the pf cap.

given the flop there's 16 AKs, 12 AA/KK, 3 QQ's (i.e. you=DOA to a runner runner straight), 1 JJ, and 6TTs.

so odds are you're ahead assuming he caps AK. its my personal experience that when a loose passive player raises early and gets 3 bet from the blinds, that same passive player doesn't put in an extra bet with no pair. thats how they think, from what i've seen. if we eliminate AK, you have to check fold the flop. so your flop bet shoudl depend on your assumption of how passive he is w/ AK.

Barron

[phish]

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Pretty unique line, I actually like it a lot cuz I think it's a very good way to save some bets

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save some bets?? after i 3bet from the sb and get capped i check fold that flop. period. he's passive, he'd have to have EXACTLY AK or TT for you to continue here. for mathematical reasons i think a bet works if you are 100% sure he's passive AND that he'd cap AK after getting 3bet from the blinds every time...i.e. if you really want to be sure he's got it then agreed, bet out...but fold to the ensuing raise. why call the flop? passive opponents call AK not raise it.

lets say he could have AK, AA-TT after the pf cap.

given the flop there's 16 AKs, 12 AA/KK, 3 QQ's (i.e. you=DOA to a runner runner straight), 1 JJ, and 6TTs.

so odds are you're ahead assuming he caps AK. its my personal experience that when a loose passive player raises early and gets 3 bet from the blinds, that same passive player doesn't put in an extra bet with no pair. thats how they think, from what i've seen. if we eliminate AK, you have to check fold the flop. so your flop bet shoudl depend on your assumption of how passive he is w/ AK.

Barron

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Even people with solid weak passive reputations are capable of getting a teeny bit out of line (by his standards) every now and then. Folding that hand on the flop to a bet is just giving your own read way too much credit.

I think the poster played it fine. Better even than checking and calling the flop and then folding the turn. But you have to at least call the flop. Then, if he is truly weak passive, he will check the turn if he can't beat you and thus letting you win the pot. Folding on the flop does not give him that opportunity to make that weak mistake.

Remember, probably the biggest weaknesses to passive play is not only that you miss bets or give free cards, but that you fail to pick up many pots that you could've. Risk that extra half-bet call on the flop to take advantage of his passive weakness. 'Give him a chance to make a mistake' is my motto.

[andyfox]

If he's passive and straightforward, it's unlikely he's capping preflop with A-K. And it's very unlikely he's capping with T-T. If he's passive and straightfoward, it's unlikely he's raising the flop with A-K or T-T.

By the turn he's had four opportunities to raise or bet and has done so all four times. If he's passive and straightforward, jacks have 0% chance of being good.

[smurfitup]

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If he's passive and straightforward, it's unlikely he's capping preflop with A-K. And it's very unlikely he's capping with T-T. If he's passive and straightfoward, it's unlikely he's raising the flop with A-K or T-T.

By the turn he's had four opportunities to raise or bet and has done so all four times. If he's passive and straightforward, jacks have 0% chance of being good.

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so you think i should have just check-folded the flop? one of the great things about playing against loose-passives is that they pretty much always let you know when you're beat. by raising the flop, the guy pretty much tells me he has an overpair (he'd just call if he had a set there), whereas if if he bet when checked to him, there is a small chance he is betting ak, and it would obviously suck to fold since the pot is pretty big (and i would have the best hand, duh). anyways, what do u think about my call of his raise there? with the 4 sbs from the other player in there and my backdoor straight potential and set potential, i felt i had odds to see the next card.

[mike l.]

"i felt i had odds to see the next card."

you did. do you play there a lot?

[smurfitup]

when i'm home i do... i go to school in connecticut, but summer/winter i'm always there.. i'll be there in a week most likely.. i actually think we played 15-30 once over summer... ill pm you to see if you remember me

[gopnik]

so, that means we fold ANY flop unless it contains a J?

[psyduck]

yeah um preflop is good since you can see if he caps or not, but then once he DOES cap, just check/fold that flop YO