Stealing once per orbit, thing of the past?

[pokerraja]

I have come to the conclusion that stealing hands once per orbit and sometimes even once per 2 orbits has become -EV for me. Players, are too good, and will be quick to play back at you. I have seen myself bleed away way too many chips using this overly aggressive approach.

For instance If I have 10K chips and average is about 5K. I feel better just waiting for premium hands, and raise and re-raise with them. I feel like the chips gained from these hands will make up for lost steals earlier. Of course even if you are card dead, you still have lots of time.

Are others changing their approach to steals?


PS--This thread is in reference from middle stages to Just after the bubble stages.

[Absolution]

I'm starting to experiment with it as well. If it were easy everybody would be doing it. Maybe you just expect it to be too simple. If you just raise it up every time the button comes around you'll be obvious. I think it takes a lot of experience to determine when the right times to do it are.
Your volatility will go up as well when you are doing this, especially with big blinds. Sometimes you'll lose 3 in a row to lose 1/3 your stack, but then catch someone trying to resteal when you have the goods. Your opponents will make a big difference too. If you're sitting around a bunch of LAGs in a low-stakes event you'll have to cut back.

And, I'm sure even the best players occasionally get sucked out on or run into big hands over and over when they are trying to steal. Maybe that will make you feel better. Don't give up though, just work harder on finding the right situations. Use the search, there are some excellent posts on stealing.

[Toro]

I've pretty much given up on it too. I've blown way too many tourneys bleeding chips trying to steal. I'm not saying I won't try an occasional steal, I do, but no where near once per orbit.

And you're right, this is a recent phenomenon, last few years. 5 years ago, I could get away with murder. The only time you got played back hard was with the top 3 hands QQ thru AA. Guys back then were laying down JJ and AK and of course worse. The game has really changed, imo.

[slickpoppa]

Like all other things in poker, it depends. Do not allow yourself to be lured into tautologies that don't adjust to how your opponents play. If your opponents are playing back at you and not respecting your raises, then wait for more premium cards. But don't just assume that all players play the same and will not respect your raises. Pay attention to how people play and don't be afraid to make a marginal raises from LP if you notice that the BB has be playing tight. One of the worst things you can do in poker is make assumptions about all players and fail to adjust your play to those who play differently.

I do agree that nowadays there are many players that cannot wait to get their money in with any pp or ace. But I still find that there are plenty of weak tight players, especially when close to the bubble, that are so scared of not making the money that they will easily back down with anything less that a type 1 hand.

[Sluss]

I find it much harder to steal with people who are willing to call with any hand they would like to play.

So I seem to be getting more calls from QJ and K10, which I don't like as much as when people would call with either a premium hand or a smaller suited connectors or small pairs. Those I can blow someone off of.

It's when they catch third pair with a Q10 and call it down even though there is an A and a K on the board. Then I pull my hair out and scream.

Of course I don't think I'll be hit in the face with the deck any time soon so I guess I'll just have to keep on stealing. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Damian UK]

[ QUOTE ]

Don't give up though, just work harder on finding the right situations. Use the search, there are some excellent posts on stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]


try here

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...=14&fpart=

cheers

Damian

[hurlyburly]

Yeah, I've come to the same conclusion. I have better luck just waiting for a playable hand and raising with that. I guess if noone calls your 3xBB raise with QQ it's still a steal, right?

For about the last year it's been a dream stealing and cold-busting the push stealers, but it seems the world might be wising up. Need new fish!

[pokerraja]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Don't give up though, just work harder on finding the right situations. Use the search, there are some excellent posts on stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the link. I remember reading that post, I will check it out again.



try here

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...=14&fpart=

cheers

Damian

[/ QUOTE ]

My main point of this thread is that I'm not going to force steal oppurtunities. I'm not going to have any numbers programmed in my head, like "i must steal once per orbit" etc... This kind of thinking has killed me. I will admit I have a hard time letting go of steals. This is one of my leaks, that I must improve if I want to be successful. But for now, im going to play a bit tighter and see if it makes a difference.