So then is this a call?

Thanks for answers my first question regarding what is binding as a call. I have another question and this actually happened to me.

I'm in a home game, multi-table tournie, and I just joined the table. Blinds were at 50/100. I'm BB. UTG throws in 200. Everyone folds to me. I deceide I want to try and get him to fold. I announce that I'm raising to 1000. It's then that they point out that he's ALL IN. He had his arms in such a way that I thought he had chips left. Since he was all in he can't fold (obviously) so I retrack my raise and fold. They say that it's binding and that I have to call. I protest saying that he didn't announce he was all in. I had just joined the table and didn't know he was low stack. Does my argument have any weight? I didn't really have a big problem calling since it was only 100 more, but I stil had a weak hand.

[_SCOTT_]

100% binding you are commiitted to call after announcing a raise in this case. lol

Of course small home tournies may have variables in rules but yes I believe they were correct. When you get to the table it's your responsibilty to know about players' chip stacks. Since it's not mentioned in your post, I guess he didn't declare it an "all in" which is strange, and along with the arm thing, one could make an argument that there was something deliberate about it, but of course that's pure speculation on my part. If these are folks you play with regularly you'd be apt to know the little things people do and don't do. Ultimately the "house" person clarifies and settles disputes, that is to be understood and agreed upon before playing. The fact that it was only a 100 to you and did not substantially reduce your chip stack was an inexpensive lesson. You can always say "how many chips ya got left" while you're thinking things over.

When in doubt, get out [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[jtr]

I know this isn't your question, but: you probably should call with anything there getting 3:1.

[Khabbi]

Annoncing a raise implies two actions in one statement: Call the bet and Raise.

You are then allowed to break your bets into two parts, the call and the raise. By announcing a raise, IMO, you have committed to the call and the raise. Since there is no one left to bet against, your raise is automatically returned to you.

2nd, does it matter if the raiser said all-in or not? Was his action confusing in anyway? I think you are stuck for the call, but it's not a big deal anyway.

[John Bedtelyon]

It's a binding call but not a bad one, and you should make this call with any two cards.

JMB

Calling wasn't a big deal because of the odds. But does someone have to declare that they are all in?

interesting question, everyone I play withdoes annoucne all-in but we play small games where that's a fun part. I do believe in a Casino the dealer would announce something like "player raises 200 all in." but i can't be sure so I'd love to hear from someone who knows more.

[dandy_don]

[ QUOTE ]
But does someone have to declare that they are all in?

[/ QUOTE ]

See page 9, Items #13 and #14 from Robert's Rules of Poker.

No, the act of simply moving all of your chips into the middle is a legal action. You are not required to verbally announce an all-in or the amount you are betting. This should however be the dealer's responsibility, but at home games, you can't expect this too often.

FWIW, if he is concealing his chips with his arms on the table, you need to ask "how much do you have left". It sounds as if you weren't aware of your surroundings if he can move all of his chips into the center and you didn't pick up on this. Before looking at your own cards, wait until the action makes it to you to look at the cards and decide; that way you are free to watch the others for tells and be aware if another has gone all-in.

[Lottery Larry]

No, it's a raise.

If you'd said something such as "I'm putting you all-in" you might have gotten the floor to cut you a break. When you say "raise to 1000" it doesn't matter WHAT the situation is- you're raising to 1000.