1/2 AK unraised preflop... - Page 2

man · #11 06-21-2005, 07:42 PM

I really appreciate that everyone has taken time to comment on my hand.

that said, SKLANSKY IS ASSUMING THAT THESE PLAYERS PLAY BADLY POSTFLOP.

but forget about what sklansky says. doesn't it make sense? by controlling the pot size, we can force our opponents to make mistakes.. like drawing to a gutshot when the pot is laying 3:1.

I might have been mistaken here, of course. what I was thinking was that with one caller and the poster, it'd be difficult to buy the button (FROM MP2 DUDES [respectfully]) or to shut anyone out of the pot.

so, I limped.

einbert · #12 06-21-2005, 07:43 PM

With a poster and the chance to buy a better position preflop, this is NOT the time to apply this concept.

einbert · #13 06-21-2005, 07:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
or to shut anyone out of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think there is a decent enough chance at least one of the SB, BB and MP poster will fold when they would have seen the flop otherwise.

bozlax · #14 06-21-2005, 07:47 PM

The only time I think it might be appropriate to apply this style of play to micro-limits (and 1/2 goes in micros, btw) is if there are 4-5 limpers before you...THOSE guys won't fold to one more, sometimes even 2 more bets, and raising will just swell the pot. That said, I NEVER apply it in micros with AA/KK/QQ/AK/AQ...they're just too strong. Well, maybe AQo.

In this case, you've got 1 limper, 1 poster (random hand) and 2 blinds (random hands). Raising WILL get you the button and at least one of the blinds plus, most likely, the poster out of the hand.

As it stands, get the eff out. You let SB complete with 2 small clubs, probably, and UTG has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]-rag...you're done.

man · #15 06-21-2005, 07:50 PM

wait why? that poster might hit middle pair when I hit top pair and pay me off, where he might've folded preflop before.. of course he might also hit a straight with 35, but I dunno, it seems like the former would balance out the latter. also, from MP2 I find it hard to buy the button in these games.. I'm guessing this happens like 1/3 times? is that enough?

could you please explain why the poster makes a difference?

I'm hoping that at the very least I can look at this post in a year and laugh/cry.

bozlax · #16 06-21-2005, 07:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
doesn't it make sense? by controlling the pot size, we can force our opponents to make mistakes.. like drawing to a gutshot when the pot is laying 3:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, yes, that makes strategic sense. By raising with AK preflop, tho, you're making SB make an immediate mistake if he calls 1.5 bets with two small clubs. With 2 limpers and a poster, he's right to call .5 with two small clubs. See?

einbert · #17 06-21-2005, 07:51 PM

The poster makes a difference because he is basically getting to see the flop for free with any two cards, as is the BB.

By not raising preflop, he has basically announced to the world that he has a hand worse than yours. If he has a hand worse than yours you want him to have to pay a price to draw out on you right?

man · #18 06-21-2005, 07:54 PM

yeah I clearly folded.

I'm also in the middle of like a 40 bet slide over 2 hours 3-tabling, so maybe it's ideas like these that are killing me.

man · #19 06-21-2005, 07:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The poster makes a difference because he is basically getting to see the flop for free with any two cards, as is the BB.

By not raising preflop, he has basically announced to the world that he has a hand worse than yours. If he has a hand worse than yours you want him to have to pay a price to draw out on you right?

[/ QUOTE ]
actually, I'd rather charge him more on later streets when the pot odds are NOT going to be correct. maybe I misapplied the concept, though.. this play is probably better with AQos, like another guy said.

Derek132260 · #20 06-21-2005, 07:57 PM

Dear "Man"...

On these boards there are certain hands and specific plays that generate heated discussion, because there are many situations that arise that create very close decisions. I myself have posted two hands just in the last week where I've had people come down right about 50-50 on what the best decision was.

But playing 1/2 online poker and not raising AK is simply not even a close decision. I'm sorry to tell you you're simply misapplying the Sklansky analysis from HEPFAP. That book is written for playing in games where the median player is much better than the median 1/2 player. Even if you find yourself in the midst of a loose 10/20 game, it will almost never be as loose as a typical 1/2 game...and even if it is, it will almost never be with people with such poor postflop decision-making abilities. And EVEN in a loose 10/20, failing to raise AK in this situation is USUALLY a mistake. In 1/2, it is a clear mistake. Long-run, if you play even 10% of your AK hands in this manner, you will not make as much money from them as if you simply raised every time you were faced with a similar situation.

Every poster (most, if not all of them more experienced than me) has told you this. It is now simply down to whether you choose to accept the advice of 100% of respondents to your post or ignore that advice because of how you've (mis)applied Sklansky's loose games advice in HEPFAP.

That decision is entirely yours...and I do wish you good luck with it.

-Derek