A flop question

sean c · #1 11-18-2005, 10:17 AM

Party poker 2/4. No reads.

Pre flop: folds to co who open limps, button calls, sb completes and i check in the bb with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Flop( 4 players 4sb): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
sb checks, i????

bet or check and why?

#2 11-18-2005, 10:24 AM

I'd check/fold. It may not be right with your gutter & overcards, but if it's not, it's close. Maybe it's weak, but in general, I'm leery of CO open limpers at $2/$4 and up. It's sort of expected that the CO and/or button open raises (or folds) most (if not all) hands. With no read, we have no reason to believe he has us crushed, but I see it quite often & would tend to not fight for this one (unless I see a free turn & improve).

Feel free to show me why this hand in stronger than I think it is.

imported_The Vibesman · #3 11-18-2005, 10:29 AM

WIth no reads I'm checking. I might call a bet if there are other callers and it's only one back, especially if I'm closing the action.

Nick Royale · #4 11-18-2005, 10:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's weak, but in general, I'm leery of CO open limpers at $2/$4 and up. It's sort of expected that the CO and/or button open raises (or folds) most (if not all) hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you should consider a openlimp in CO as a weak hand made by a not so great player.

imported_The Vibesman · #5 11-18-2005, 10:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's weak, but in general, I'm leery of CO open limpers at $2/$4 and up. It's sort of expected that the CO and/or button open raises (or folds) most (if not all) hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you should consider a openlimp in CO as a weak hand made by a not so great player.

[/ QUOTE ]

sean c · #6 11-18-2005, 10:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's weak, but in general, I'm leery of CO open limpers at $2/$4 and up. It's sort of expected that the CO and/or button open raises (or folds) most (if not all) hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you should consider a openlimp in CO as a weak hand made by a not so great player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without question this should be the read. There are tons of bad players at 2/4 and even more weak tight ones.

What are your flop thoughts nick?

sean c · #7 11-18-2005, 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
WIth no reads I'm checking. I might call a bet if there are other callers and it's only one back, especially if I'm closing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi vibesman how much should we be discounting our overcard outs here?

imported_The Vibesman · #8 11-18-2005, 10:52 AM

I'm thinking only about one out each for the overs, due to domination possibilities, the 8s could make someone a straight, and the J or 8 of spades could make someone a flush. One out each might be generous. Adding in the gutshot and backdoor flush draws are the only real reason I see a possibility to peel here. As I said though, I would need a bit more padding. I think I'd peel it off getting about 6-1 if I could be fairly certain that I wouldn't be raised behind.

sean c · #9 11-18-2005, 10:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking only about one out each for the overs, due to domination possibilities, the 8s could make someone a straight, and the J or 8 of spades could make someone a flush. One out each might be generous. Adding in the gutshot and backdoor flush draws are the only real reason I see a possibility to peel here. As I said though, I would need a bit more padding. I think I'd peel it off getting about 6-1 if I could be fairly certain that I wouldn't be raised behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nicely done vibesman thanks.

#10 11-18-2005, 10:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's weak, but in general, I'm leery of CO open limpers at $2/$4 and up. It's sort of expected that the CO and/or button open raises (or folds) most (if not all) hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you should consider a openlimp in CO as a weak hand made by a not so great player.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess without checking my DB, I shouldn't really say what I do in spots like this. Perhaps I fear a strong hand, perhaps not. What the CO has in this hand is irrelevant to me. Had they raised & it folded to me, I'd have folded anyway. Since I saw the flop for free & totally missed, I'd still check & most likely fold (unless like Vibesman said, it's one to me with 2-3 more bets in).