99 - I suck at playing "Under"pairs

POKhER · #1 10-12-2005, 09:47 AM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Raise to kill the field really, Id rather it was heads up or very multiway.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Continuation bet, try get it now.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Ok last attempt...

River: (5.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Hmm he wont fold any hand, this guy calls with middle pairs and stuff. I check for free SD and probably let it go to a bet.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

@bsolute_luck · #2 10-12-2005, 09:59 AM

nh. i see no problem with how you played this. what's the problem?

fish43 · #3 10-12-2005, 09:59 AM

Check-raise on the turn, fold to a three bet, and check-fold the river. The extra aggression of a check-raise can win it outright and make the opponent start thinking the may have the a losing hand.

If he checks through the turn, then bet the river. After the opponent has given up the chance to bet the turn a bet on the river can look like a check raise.

#4 10-12-2005, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Check-raise on the turn, fold to a three bet, and check-fold the river. The extra aggression of a check-raise can win it outright and make the opponent start thinking the may have the a losing hand.

If he checks through the turn, then bet the river. After the opponent has given up the chance to bet the turn a bet on the river can look like a check raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Attempting to check-raise the turn accomplishes nothing except losing an extra BB when behind, and giving a free card if the villain is drawing. Bet/folding the turn is much better. As it is, I think the OP played it fine.

stoli · #5 10-12-2005, 10:05 AM

These are tough, first off I don't think I'd be raising this trying to get it heads up when I'm in early position. This is a speculative hand from early postion and should be played like one.

If this guy will call with middle pair but not bet it, why not slow down on the turn card and see how he reacts to a card that probably didn't help him. He can be pretty sure that the duece didn't help a pre-flop raiser.

Buckmulligan · #6 10-12-2005, 10:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Hmm he wont fold any hand, this guy calls with middle pairs and stuff. I check for free SD and probably let it go to a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

All the reason to bet the turn. There's also always the chance that we get a better player to fold a jack.

POKhER · #7 10-12-2005, 10:12 AM

Underpairs just send me into confusion when i miss a set and then have a passive guy Headsup when im out of position. I wondered if the turn bet was spewing, and is planning to fold to a river bet ok?

#8 10-12-2005, 10:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Underpairs just send me into confusion when i miss a set and then have a passive guy Headsup when im out of position. I wondered if the turn bet was spewing, and is planning to fold to a river bet ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn bet and river are fine, if you plan to fold to a raise. You said the guy was passive, so I assume he won't attempt a river bluff with a busted draw.

MN_Mime · #9 10-12-2005, 12:37 PM

*grunch*

My money's on a J, either KJo or JTs (possibly diamonds). Could be a smaller pair, though, so I don't think you can fold to a river stab without a read.

I think you played this fine and I'd have probably played it the same.

Someone recommended a turn c/r and I don't like it. If you whiff and lead the river, you fold any hand you can beat (-1BB), get called by hands that beat you. If you get called/raised on the turn, you've put in an extra bet where you're surely behind and your 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] out may be tainted.

MN_Mime · #10 10-12-2005, 12:58 PM

99 isn't speculative at all. It's best hand.

You've got ~72% equity against a random hand. You're ~50% equity against any broadway (includes bigger pocket pairs). Against 2 any broadway hands, you've still got your 33% equity share. Even adding 2 random hands (5 hands, including blinds), you've got ~25% equity PF.

99, however, often ends up in the grey zone when the flop comes becuase you're often in the unpleasant situation of two overs. You want to limit the field to reduce the chance of a randomish hand catching an overcard; the combinations just kill you. You don't want to give the blinds a free ride.

When you fail to do so and you end up with an overpair, you need to recognize that you're now playing for set value instead of high-card strength. Building the pot early gives you better odds for hitting your set later if the flop is not favorable.

As OP suggested, OOP presents problems and your read will help you decide if you can gain fold equity by representing a bigger hand or releasing.

Headsup against a passive, I prefer pressuring him but his call speaks volumes. He's made a hand (or started with one), but the question is how fragile? I initially missed the passive read. If the read is solid, I might check the turn and check/call the river. If he's just semi-passive, I like OP's line.