A dumbass river fold?

jason_t · #1 08-04-2005, 11:04 PM

Loose table. BB is 23.0/5.0/1.3 and Button is 26.4/5.5/5.0. I tried to call/3-bet the flop.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB raises, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (10 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero folds....

KDawgCometh · #2 08-04-2005, 11:08 PM

I'm definetly raising the flop. The button's post flop stats are very aggro so I think you can get him to raise you or at least cold call. As for the river, I'd call a bet and fold to a raise

toss · #3 08-04-2005, 11:27 PM

Ambitious flop plan.

No likely river fold. I think he can raise with two pair.

Evan · #4 08-04-2005, 11:28 PM

I already told you it was dumb. Why are you making me look at this crime against humanity again? I hope someone tries to stab you w/ a knife from your own kitchen.

EDIT: Calling this flop is fine imo. I don't know why so many people have a problem with it.

brettbrettr · #5 08-04-2005, 11:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I hope someone tries to stab you w/ a knife from your own kitchen.

[/ QUOTE ]

And why are you playing 2/4?

jason_t · #6 08-04-2005, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I already told you it was dumb. Why are you making me look at this crime against humanity again?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you said it was a "dumbass fold" and I'm not convinced of that yet.

[ QUOTE ]
I hope someone tries to stab you w/ a knife from your own kitchen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Been there, done that. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

shant · #7 08-04-2005, 11:35 PM

I'm super confused by the fold.

Entity · #8 08-04-2005, 11:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Calling this flop is fine imo. I don't know why so many people have a problem with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally raise flops, even like this, when I don't have a good indication as to whether or not I will be led into again. His opponent is of moderate aggression but nothing spectacular, and in general (though not always) the range of hands opponents will call one bet on this flop will be about the same as the range they'll call two with (not so much the case on the turn).

Rob

AL5AcE · #9 08-04-2005, 11:58 PM

Calling flop is not bad but it's 2/4 and raise might be good. River fold is bad, villan is capable of raising 2 pair or maybe even AQ with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or something = must call.

Doctavian · #10 08-05-2005, 12:31 AM

Several posters have raised the question of whether it is best to raise the flop with a hidden set.(Trips of course are when the pair of your 3 ranked cards are on the table, and a set is when a pair is wired in your hole) The standard opinion is that if your set is very strong and your flop weak you can slow play your hand. (Even though this will occasionally cost you the pot.) But when you face potential redraws by your opponents i.e. flush draws or tree top draws (which you did in this case) you simply have to force your opponents to pay to draw out against you.

If one or more of your opponents has a flush draw, what percent of the time will he/she complete it? (Right 35% of the time) If one or more of your opponents has an open ended treetop draw, what percent of the time will he or she make it? (Right 32% of the time!) Also what percent of the time will you “over” redraw their redraws by making a full house? (Right 35% of the time)

How you played the flop in this one hand is not important. BUT how you play this situation throughout your lifetime will cost you (or win for you ) literally thousands of dollars.

That’s why the rule is “When your set faces a possible flush or straight draw force them to pay as much as possible.”

About an hour ago I hit a straight on the flop and a top set put in 5 raises against me before he backed off. (That was a mistake in the extreme on his part) At the moment I had the nut hand. And he had a 35% chance of redrawing out against me. But it shows how aggressively players tend to play flopped sets.

I have been kicking myself for three days, for not calling a single bet for a $250 dollar pot, when I missed my flush draw and had only a pair of 8s against a bet an a call with 4 over cards on the board. It turned out that the bettor had a pair of 2s, and the caller in front of me called the bet with an unpaired king!

When we are contesting for big pots on the river we just have to call for one bet.

Remember if it’s a ten bet pot: If you 1. call-miss, 2. call-miss, 3. call-miss, 4. call-miss, 5. call-miss, 6. call-miss 7. call-miss 8. call-miss 9. call HIT! You end up a financial winner in the long run.

Don’t feel bad about making a foolish mistake. The mistake club includes all of us that play the game.

Most sincerely,

Doctavian