Moneymaker implosion?

[muckdumper]

he has'nt improved his game any from what i've seen.did fame took him away and soon to be lost at sea??seems it was all luck that won the WSOP and smaller field at time.unlike fossilman he's the real deal!!what can you say his tell is?????his imediate action when raising????

[Douche Bag]

Seriously, you people need to lay off Moneymaker. He would prolly whipe the floor with most of us so quit talking sh*t.

[pokergripes]

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From this post I can assume you suck at poker. However on this higher level tourneys,people probably have wider calling ranges than in SNGs, but Im sure you brain didnt make it here, Im sure moneymaker made sure the player was kinda noob before trying his mathematically correct play .( moneymaker didnt hope the guy would fold, he figured a calling range for his oponent and then he thought the range was tight enough, was he right? well never know since AK is basically on every calling range with short stacks.

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You're right. I'm not a great poker player. I don't understand why he would do that. I'd also forgotten that Moneymaker is a posterboy for the Poker Everyman and that I'm apparantly only allowed to dislike Hellmuth.

My REAL point, which one guy in the thread said he got, was that Moneymaker seems to be kinda teetering in his life. The cardplayer video of him made him seem like an old star trek actor charging kids ten bucks for an autograph.

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i dont see how we were supposed to get this point at all from your OP.

which, by the way, was completely wrong. nothing wrong with bluffing with any two cards with one player left to act.

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Don't agree with that, it's a pretty big overstatement to say "nothing wrong with bluffing with any two with one player left to act"...it's a heck of a lot better to wait for e.g. a jack high to do it, because if you get called you really want to have a shot of having at least one overcard to your opp's lower card (for the obvious math reasons already discussed). That's why you never hear of people busting out of major events with seven deuce...they picked a better spot than a seven high. So, that's why it's interesting that mm did it.

btw, good line about the star trek actor charging ten bucks an autograph, nh other guy [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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As has been stated previously, it is often better to push with something like 64s or even 72s than with J8o because your opponent is much less likely to have you dominated, so at least you have 2 live cards and with antes in the pot you are definitely getting the at least 2-1 odds you need against most hands. The only thing you are truly afraid of in this situation, that would make it a bad push, is an overpair to your cards (or 77 but this is less likely anyhow). Its all about the math and the fact that next time you have slightly less total chips pushing into 2 people, assuming you get to open, then through 3, etc...

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Yeah, that's why I said jack...ace, king and perhaps queen presents that domination issue...seven is losing to an eight.

[Ken_AA]

I don't understand why people get on the guy, he seems like a nice guy (I have not read his book so if hes a jerk in that ignore this). I played a 40 dollar qualifier this year and if i had ended up winning 2.5 mill, I would quit my job ( ok you got me, I'd quit looking for a job) to play poker also, and believe me I'm way worse then he is.

Did Moneymaker slap your grandmother or something?

Ken

[Shoe]

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I don't understand why people get on the guy, he seems like a nice guy (I have not read his book so if hes a jerk in that ignore this). I played a 40 dollar qualifier this year and if i had ended up winning 2.5 mill, I would quit my job ( ok you got me, I'd quit looking for a job) to play poker also, and believe me I'm way worse then he is.

Did Moneymaker slap your grandmother or something?

Ken

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I am also surprised how much people go after this guy. Do any of you realize how many fish he has brought into the game that many of you making a living off of today?

[Alobar]

You know, the moneymaker bashers really annoy the hell out of me. I was on the table next to moneymaker when he busted. He was a super short stack and was obviously stealing. After he busted I got to listen to a bunch of nits at my table bad mouth him for how stupid he was for going all in with 72o.

I dont get all the hatred for him. Is he the greatest poker player ever? hell no. So what, whog ives a [censored]? He doesnt act like he is, he seems like a pretty modest guy. I think it all just basically boils down to jealousy. They are mad some "clown" won a bracelet, and they cant even make the money in any big tourny. Its the same idiots who table coach good online games. They are just looking for anyoen to listen so they can prove how smart they are, and they they don't infact have really small pee pees.

[fnurt]

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As has been stated previously, it is often better to push with something like 64s or even 72s than with J8o because your opponent is much less likely to have you dominated, so at least you have 2 live cards and with antes in the pot you are definitely getting the at least 2-1 odds you need against most hands. The only thing you are truly afraid of in this situation, that would make it a bad push, is an overpair to your cards (or 77 but this is less likely anyhow). Its all about the math and the fact that next time you have slightly less total chips pushing into 2 people, assuming you get to open, then through 3, etc...

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I have read this "2 live cards" theory a zillion times but I've never seen any math to suggest it's actually true. I mean, with jack-high you're marginally more likely to be dominated, which costs you EV, but there are also many hands where you pick up EV with jack-high as opposed to rags. I don't know the mathematical answer but I think people are too willing to accept the intuitive one.

The real point in all this is that it's often more about situation and read than the cards you hold, and if you're in such a desperate position that any hand will call you, then you don't exactly have a ton of time to "wait for a better spot."

It's a fallacy to assume great players never raise a 7-high because you rarely see them go out with 7-high. Among other things, a great player is more likely to be correct when he thinks his 7-high won't get called. Focusing on one bust-out hand as the difference between a good player and a mediocre one is very ESPN though.

[needcash]

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I don't understand why people get on the guy, he seems like a nice guy (I have not read his book so if hes a jerk in that ignore this). I played a 40 dollar qualifier this year and if i had ended up winning 2.5 mill, I would quit my job ( ok you got me, I'd quit looking for a job) to play poker also, and believe me I'm way worse then he is.

Did Moneymaker slap your grandmother or something?

Ken

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I am also surprised how much people go after this guy. Do any of you realize how many fish he has brought into the game that many of you making a living off of today?

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Great point. Anyone who shows a good profit playing online the past few years should thank Moneymaker for bringing all the new fish to the pond.

[Ilovephysics]

Agreed. I suppose one could argue that poker was very much on the rise probably before MM won the WSOP... but MM pretty much sealed the deal for the 'common' player to plop down at a poker table in a casino or online and not feel intimidated or uncomfortable. The poker room always seemed like such a scary place...

[bp02]

ALL IM GONNA SAY IS NOBODY DOGGED DAN HARRINGTON FOR RAISING WITH 6 HIGH IN THE WSOP FINAL TABLE LAST YEAR? ITS JUST TRYING TO MAKE A PLAY. HE HAPPENED TO RUN INTO A GOOD HAND. HAPPENS. ITS PART OF POKER, BUT JUST CUZ MONEYMAKER DID IT PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE A REASON TO DOG ON HIM. IF FARHA MADE THAT CALL IN THAT WSOP WHERE HE MADE "THE BIG BLUFF" HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED DUMB, BUT WHATEVER. HE IS A FORMER WORLD CHAMP