Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Poker > Stud
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-30-2005, 05:07 AM
Doctavian Doctavian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38
Default To bluff or not to bluff! Is the question Mnemonics the answer? Doc AZ

To Bluff or Not to Bluff! That is the question!

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I participate with a group of friends in a poker study forum. To help each other with our games, we make up lessons to review with each other. I was working on a presentation on bluffing for the forum. And I thought that I might as well go ahead and post it here, in case any of our stud forum members might be interested.

Topic: Hilger’s basic 11 principles of bluffing. And the technique of creating mnemonics to help us remember them.

Introduction Doc AZ: When I played lower limit stud I very rarely bluffed. (We shall discuss the reasons in a minute) When I played $15-30 Stud, I bluffed more frequently. And when I play in Stud tournaments, bluffing is an essential maneuver that I use with some regularity.

If you are going to master the game of Stud, you MUST master every single part of the game. Even those maneuvers which in your particular game you rarely use.

An example concerning bluffing might be: If I visiting a new casino and was placed at a very loose low limit stud game, which for example might have an average of 6 callers per hand, I might play for a couple of hours without ever going for a bluff.

But if I entered a stud tournament at that same casino, I would know that: I am likely to only be dealt a limited number of strong hands during the short duration of the tourney. Therefore I am going to have to bluff occasionally early to take pots. And at the end of the tourney many of my bets are going to be semi bluff bets.

So what are the bluffing essentials and how can we remember them for the rest of our lives.


Hillgar’s 11 essentials of bluffing, and a technique to remember them.

When I go to master a new concept I often employ the technique of Mnemonics to help me remember concepts which have a lot of sub-components.

I think that the chapter on bluffing in Matthew Hilgar’s book published 2002 gives a good overview of the subject.


His 11 principles are:

1 Usually only bluff when you are against one two or POSSIBLY three opponents
2. A Tight image on your part increases you likely hood of success.
3.Since Poker is a game which rewards aggression, semibluff bets and raises can often be profitable.


The difference between a pure and a semi-bluff is that pure bluffs are hands that should loose if called. While a Semi-bluff hand is one which is provably behind now but which has redraws.
4. You have a better chance of bluffing good players (not experts) and timid players than idiots and maniacs.
A poker proverb that I have all too often found true is from Davis’s book “The Poker Bible” And it is: To try and bluff a fool only makes you a fool as well.
5. You will be more successful trying to steal small pots than large ones..
6. You will be more successful if you try bluffs before the river round.

Doc AZ: Now what is a technique that I can use, to help me remember all 11 of Hlger’s principles? Answer: I am going to create a mnemonic!

The ancient Greeks mastered this technique of mnemonics thousands of years ago. As a matter of fact the word mnemonics comes from the legend of a Greek named Mnemon who was in a temple when it collapsed killing many people inside. He had to remember who had been killed so he created a story, which included each of the casualties and in doing so created the technique of mnemonics.

One of the principles of mnemonics is that the more bizarre the story is you create the easier it is for the mind to remember.


In our story we are going to see a giant tractor-trailer which is open and contains hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is going to be given us as a reward for remembering this mnemonic. The truck is supported in mid air by Hilgar's eleven pillars, his 11 principles of bluffing.

And the story goes, once open a time:

One, two, or possibly three, tight characters, drove their semi bluff, through knowledgeable mice, and into a small pot, before the river.

So this half of our mnemonic reminds of which 6 of Hilger’s principles?

1. Bluffs are more successful when tried against one or two and POSSIBLY three opponents, but they will usualy fail when tried against four opponents.
2. Bluffs are more successful if YOU have a tight playing image.
3 Semi bluffs have 3 ways of winning . a. by taking the pot now. b. by taking the hand when you hit your redraw. b. by missing the bluff and having your opponents try to draw out on your more.
4. Bluffs are more successful when you attempt them against knowledgeable opponents and timid opponents.
(In the Poker Bible by Davis, he says To try to bluff a fool only makes you a fool. It is a proverb which I have painfully remembered all too frequently.
5. You are going to be able to bluff small pots much easier than you are big pots.
6. Bluffs attempted before the river round of betting, are more successful than those attempted on the river. This is because their are no potential future rounds that the caller migh have to encounter.

So what is the second part of our Mnemonic story.

In this half we see our One, Two, or possible Three poker bluffers having been pulled over, and a policeman giving them a card.

Our Mnemonic Novella continues:

The One, two, or possibly three drivers said that they could read their opponents hands by the light of their opponent’s raggedy uncoordinated rainbows, and this put them in the position to be able to represent their hands as being stronger than they really were. So they got a scare card!

The second half of the mnemonic reminds us of principles 7 through 11 which are that:


7. Bluffs work better when you read your opponents hands as being weak.
8 Rainbow cards (no flush coordination) and raggedy cards in your opponents exposed hands increase your bluff’s chance of success.
9. And early raising and betting on your part can miss-represent the strength of your hand to your opponents which can increase your bluffs chances of success.
10. Your position in the round can influence your bluffs chance of winning. Early position bluffs: to try to misrepresent your hand. Or late to take advantage of times your opponents have shown no strength.
11. And Scare cards hitting your board, can also increase your bluffs chance of success.

So what is our whole mnemonic one last time:

One, two, or three tight players drove their semi-bluffs through the knowledgeable mice into, a small pot before the river! They were given a scare card because they had read their opponents hands, by the light from their raggedy rainbows, and they had represented their hands as being stronger than they really were.


Well that's my mnemonic. In Poker, knowledge is power PERIOD! And the Game rewards the men and women who take the time to master her principles.

Mnemonics is one of the techniques that I use to help me remember game concepts, and strategies which have many different components.


I just made this particular mnemonic up as I wrote out this post. And I am certain that you can create even better ones for yourselves.


One final reminder about bluffing. The looser the game is, and the less sophisticated your opponents are the less productive your bluffs will tend to be.

In loose low limit games bluffs can often be PROFIT LOSS maneuvers.Why don't we try and bluff fols again....!

When you are in a game of that nature, often the best thing to do is to just bet your big hands, call with your good draws, and fold the rest.

Your friend,

Doc AZ
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-30-2005, 05:28 AM
Michael Emery Michael Emery is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5
Default Re: To bluff or not to bluff! Is the question Mnemonics the answer? Doc AZ

Like usual Doc, great post. I'm not sure if you recall me posting with you years ago on here about stud, but very good to see you again. Honestly though, most of what was said should be quite obvious to any experienced player. Bluff when you sense your opponent is weak, remember what your image is like, etc. I think 80% or more of bluffs that good players make in stud really just are semi-bluffs that they never slowed down with. Boards play such a HUGE role in stud that I think when bluffing the main thing you should consider is what your board looks like. Trying to bluff or semi-bluff with a weak non scary board is usually flat out chip spewing.

Mike Emery
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-30-2005, 10:20 AM
RayGarlington RayGarlington is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Default Re: To bluff or not to bluff! Is the question Mnemonics the answer? Doc AZ

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly though, most of what was said should be quite obvious to any experienced player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure there are experienced players that will benefit by reviewing these 11 principles and by applying this mnemonic (or a derivative) in the heat of battle. Not to mention all the inexperienced players who come here to learn something.

Don't discourage the man! Great post Doc Az. Thanks for taking the time.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-30-2005, 12:25 PM
mscags mscags is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Between Two Hot Twins
Posts: 713
Default Re: To bluff or not to bluff! Is the question Mnemonics the answer? Do

Excellent post. Point taken.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-30-2005, 12:44 PM
Michael Emery Michael Emery is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5
Default Re: To bluff or not to bluff! Is the question Mnemonics the answer? Doc AZ

[ QUOTE ]

I am sure there are experienced players that will benefit by reviewing these 11 principles and by applying this mnemonic (or a derivative) in the heat of battle. Not to mention all the inexperienced players who come here to learn something.

Don't discourage the man! Great post Doc Az. Thanks for taking the time.



[/ QUOTE ]

Discourage? Didnt I say "great post" in my response? Read more carefully.

Mike Emery
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-30-2005, 12:54 PM
RayGarlington RayGarlington is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Default Re: To bluff or not to bluff! Is the question Mnemonics the answer? Doc AZ

I am a careful reader. I personally would not find your comment to be encouraging.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-30-2005, 02:33 PM
CJC CJC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 293
Default Re: To bluff or not to bluff! Is the question Mnemonics the answer? Doc AZ

O Doc, it is so good to see you again..

[ QUOTE ]
When you are in a game of that nature, often the best thing to do is to just bet your big hands, call with your good draws, and fold the rest.


[/ QUOTE ]

This might be the truest of all statements on this forum right now. SO MANY of the games are like this nowadays, that lots ( including most of us experienced players ) try to overanalyze things. ( myself included ) When what we should be doing is going back to the good old basics.. Do that and you WILL make money.

Plain and simple.

Take Care

CJ
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-30-2005, 03:17 PM
Doctavian Doctavian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38
Default \"IF YOU BUILD IT ! IT WILL COME!\" Doc AZ

Dear Michael,

Of course I remember you from before. And your opinions are as excellent now as they were then.

I love this forum because we have many gifted, and experienced players like yourself, with great ideas. But we also have enthusiastic new members of our sport.

Some times advice for low limit games differs from that for high limit players.

Your opinions for advanced play are Right, Right, and Right!

Michael: “Boards play such a HUGE role in stud that I think when bluffing the main thing you should consider is what your board looks like.”


Exactly Right! Remember when Ray Z taught us that the higher the limit you play, the more important you board image is. And that at $100-$200 stud, the high board man is always presumed to take the lead. My Casino has never posted a $100-$200 dollar stud game, but I have used that technique in the ends of tournaments.

Of course this technique could easily be suicidal at a loose $3- $6 dollar game.

Michael: I think 80% or more bluffs that good players make in stud really just are semi-bluffs that they never slowed down with.

Right again! Poker favors the aggressor. When you hit that big triple combo hand, (let’s say a big flush draw, with a big backdoor straight and over-cards to the board your looking at what I call a 13 power point hand. (I am going to post my technique for counting power points later, and will look forward to your opinion.) Jam away! And once you build this pot if the conditions are right and you miss your draw, take your shot. If this bluff works only 33% of the time and you have 7 to 1 pot odds the bet still has a big overlay. Remember my old motto concerning pots! If you build it, IT WILL COME!

Michael: “Trying to bluff or semi-bluff with a weak non scary board is usually flat out chip spewing“.

A friend, and solid Hold-em player sat down at or stud game and just got crushed.

“What the hell happened to me he asked.”

“You undervalued the power of board card image! “ I said”

“What the hell is that he said.”

Well you are use to all 7 of your opponents having the same board., so repeatedly when you tried to bluff the good stud players could read your hand, I am sad to say, some times better than you could and they didn’t even know what your hole cards were.”

Good to hear from you again my old friend,

Doc AZ
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-30-2005, 03:46 PM
Doctavian Doctavian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38
Default But Sam! \"So many more things to think about \"! Doc AZ

Excellent point Ray!

Dear Ray,

You are so right!

I have a friend who is a superb player and a genius. And not uncommonly he will inform the dealer that he is calling a time out durring the action!

One of our usual playing opponents said to him once “Charlie (names changed to protect the guilty) for the love of god! You have a degree in engineering and spend your life reading poker books but in the past year you must have taken a hundred more “time outs” than I have. Why is that!

Charlie smiled at Sam and said. “Because I have so many more things to think about and calculate than you do Sam.”

God to hear from you,

Doc AZ
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-30-2005, 03:50 PM
Doctavian Doctavian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38
Default Point well made! MSC : Doc AZ

Dear MCS,

Thanks for the reply. Point well made!

Sincerely,

Doc AZ
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.