A7soooooted. play along?

[ QUOTE ]
I raise to make it unprofitable for 3 outers (AK, AQ) to call this.(they still will, they just won't know that they are not getting the right odds.)
Plus, some weak overs can fold too.
Yes, I raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, let's make some assumptions. Let's say I just call and bring along 2 of the players beind me, beefing the pot up to about 26sb, or 13bb. Let's also say that BB leads again and UTG calls again, and I then raise. I face the field with 8.5:1 odds, meaning I protect against anyone with fewer than 5 outs. This is being generous, though. If the action is a bit slower on the turn, then I protect against maybe 5-outers also. I don't know how to handle the fact that MP3 is still left to act (although she didn't cap pf, so this could easily reduce her to passivity, especially on a dry flop like this). If I raise now, then it could get even worse for me when BB 3-bets.

All in all, I decided to raise to the flop to protect against 3-outers and also get some dirty 6-outers to fold (I would probably fold KQ or JT if this flop was raised, where I would possibly call for one bet). With 4 players behind me, I think I need to push this edge now.

[Grease]

I call the flop and raise any non-paint turn.

Raising here does nothing to protect your hand, as the pot is offering almost 13-1. It worked out this time, but you gotta protect your hand somehow in this huge pot.

Bet the turn.

[gopnik]

I call. If you manage to suck out, you'll win a HUGE pot.

[Borno]

umm this hand sucks the whole way through.

fold pf - the 1st time around, not sure if you got that. once its 3 bet I would probably have to call, but a cap SUCKS. Notice that there is a UTG caller, meaning your A7 has a good chance of domination. If there was no caller I might be more inclined to call.. but even still. like A9 there is okay I think. I know there isn't a huge difference but its big enough.

umm Ref. SSHE pf quiz for that call - Ed Miller does it! so do I.. lol

on the flop I call and I raise any under turn.. the 9.. well.. I see there are 14 bets in the pot.. a bet doesn't do much for you.. I think I call this one down probably. let people think their A-Big is good when their A hits.

and if its bet before you on the turn auto-raise / fold to a 3-bet

[damaniac]

I'm not quite getting the preflop hositility. I don't think limping A7s so early should be a default, but there are most definetly low limit tables where doing so is totally fine. The 2/4 game at the Flamingo would be a good example. In any event, it really depends on the table, not on a rigid application of SSHE. So if the OP's read was such that the table was like 6-7 to the flop almost never for a raise, yeah it's ok.

Same thing with calling two back. 13:2 immediate odds, we're probably looking at something between 19:2 and I dunno, 19:3 (say MP caps and you lose a couple limpers). If we flop a flush draw or two pair/trips, etc, we should be able to take the table for a lot of bets. Yeah, we hit some second bests but we aren't going crazy with top pair. In any event, I don't know how to quantify it exactly, it MAY be wrong, but I can't see it being wrong by much if it is, and I really think you should show a profit calling two back here.

[@bsolute_luck]

preflop and flop are goot. turn is a bet.

[Jake (The Snake)]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not quite getting the preflop hositility.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me either. What the hell is going on around here lately with all this? Just because the SSHE Tight chart says fold doesn't mean that folding is correct. Those charts are not meant to be rigidly followed.

Fwiw, I used to limp all suited aces from UTG when I played 2/4, and they showed a profit. UTG has already called here, I think playing A7s is CERTAINLY profitable for a good player in this spot.

On the way back, I'd fold... but I really don't have any mathematical evidence as to why. I don't like being oop with a hand that easily could be dominated which would give yucky reverse implieds in a big pot.

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not quite getting the preflop hositility.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me either. What the hell is going on around here lately with all this? Just because the SSHE Tight chart says fold doesn't mean that folding is correct. Those charts are not meant to be rigidly followed.

Fwiw, I used to limp all suited aces from UTG when I played 2/4, and they showed a profit. UTG has already called here, I think playing A7s is CERTAINLY profitable for a good player in this spot.

On the way back, I'd fold... but I really don't have any mathematical evidence as to why. I don't like being oop with a hand that easily could be dominated which would give yucky reverse implieds in a big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't speak for the rest of the people that are hostile about the preflop play, but when I said fold it was specifically directed toward calling the 3-bet. When I played 2/4 I had a VPIP of close to 21 and limped all suited aces UTG.

[damaniac]

It wasn't that suggesting a preflop fold is wrong, it was just the whole idea that "OMG SSHE doesn't say to play that, how dare you deviate from SSHE??" In all fairness, though, it came from newer posters, and learning poker and how to play things situationally takes time, so I'm not trying to be a dick or anything. In any event, I think I'd still call the two cold, but I don't think either decision, absent further info, is horribly wrong.

[Jake (The Snake)]

This is exactly what I meant too.

And while I agree that it has generally come from new players, I have seen it from people with 1000+ posts as well (although I don't think they've been around too long either). In any case, I think a lot of people who read/post on this forum would be literally shocked to see the advice in this classic gem.

I have no qualms with folding when it's two back to me either.