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#2
08-31-2005, 09:02 AM
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Re: what is standard line?
[ QUOTE ]
Hero is delt kqo in mp1. folds to hero, hero raises. 24/12/1.8 guy directly to hero's left 3 bets. folds to hero. hero calls. Flop comes: K 5 5 what is plan for hand? [/ QUOTE ] You should check and call all the way. If the villain has a worse hand than you like AQ or QQ,JJ,TT. Why would you want to play back at him and make him fold? You make a lot more money letting the villain bet these 2 or 3 outer type hands all the way. And if the villain has a better hand than you like AK,KK or AA, you minimize your loss by checking and calling. This is a classic example where checking and calling gets the most money in the long run. 
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#5
08-31-2005, 10:18 AM
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Re: what is standard line?
[ QUOTE ]
Hero is delt kqo in mp1. folds to hero, hero raises. 24/12/1.8 guy directly to hero's left 3 bets. folds to hero. hero calls. Flop comes: K 5 5 what is plan for hand? [/ QUOTE ] check call check call and decide based on the speed of his bets, history etc.. whether to bet or check the rvier. a few things to consider in no particular order and in no particular order of importance: 1) how often do you play with him/her? if always then betting may be best b/c youd ont want somebody youp lay allthe time with thinking they can put in 1.5bbs and get a showdown all the time. 2) how aggressive he is on the river. calling a bet here could be a good thing or a bad thing. 3) how likely he is to bluff if you check or bet a worse hand for value but would fold if you bet. 4) how likely it is that he'll call with a worse hand. my betting and checking frequency here varies as above factors do. i think it was JAsucker that said in some instances there is an ideal # of bets that should go in the pot. i think 2.5bbs here is perfect in many cases. Barron
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#6
08-31-2005, 10:23 AM
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Re: what is standard line?
[ QUOTE ]
Check-raise flop, bet turn and bet river. If u get reraised turn you are probably beaten and should fold. [/ QUOTE ] The problem with this is it is a way-ahead/way-behind situation. Villain either has us crushed with AA/AK/KK, or is drawing to 2-4 outs with Ax, QQ etc. With a worse hand, villain will probably fold when we check-raise the flop, and we have left money on the table. Furthermore, the aggressive villain will presumably bet the hand for us, but could also re-raise with hands like KQs (or worse, e.g. after picking up a flush draw on the turn) and knock us out. Some opponents will re-raise with QQ/JJ. Therefore calling down can be a good option. Check-call, check-call, bet-[fold/call] is another option. This way we win the most when ahead, but lose the least when behind.
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#7
09-01-2005, 02:06 AM
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Re: what is standard line?
I went check/call check/call river went check/check. He had jj. I wasn't sure about leading the river there. I am still undecided against this opponent, but I have my thoughts clearer now. thanks for the responses.
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#8
09-01-2005, 02:19 AM
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Re: what is standard line?
It's much easier to bet the river if you can semi-represent a big hand that AK or AA would have to fear. For instance if the river completes (even a backdoor) flush draw, or if the flop was K T T instead of K 5 5.
I bet the river about 75% here though even on dry boards. You'll get called by almost anything he has, whereas he will check behind with a lot of hands. Sometimes they even try yo raise your donkbet with hands you beat.
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#9
09-01-2005, 02:24 AM
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Re: what is standard line?
[ QUOTE ]
It's much easier to bet the river if you can semi-represent a big hand that AK or AA would have to fear. For instance if the river completes (even a backdoor) flush draw, or if the flop was K T T instead of K 5 5. I bet the river about 75% here though even on dry boards. You'll get called by almost anything he has, whereas he will check behind with a lot of hands. Sometimes they even try yo raise your donkbet with hands you beat. [/ QUOTE ] usually when you take this check/call check/call lead line; you want to be able to fold to a raise on the river. I think lestat had a post about this recently. The potential river raise for worse hands is what makes me lean toward a check, espeically when I am not going to pay off a raise.
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#10
09-01-2005, 02:42 AM
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Re: what is standard line?
I do not necessarily think that c/c, c/c, b/c or c/c again is a bad way to play it, but the notion that pairs below K are folding here on this flop are way off IMO. If we are talking the party 30 here you are getting called down by any pair here most of the time.
I do not think check raising this flop is necessarily so bad - especially if you are an otherwise aggressive player and would do the same w/a mid PP here (which I would). I would definitely be c/r this flop some of the time. If you get three bet on the flop you can probably fold to a turn bet (if he makes it) against reasonable opponents, but default would be to call down.
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