Should everybody hate me for this? - Page 2

Siingo · #11 06-13-2004, 06:35 PM

I did not like the turnbet, but I did think that he maybe could do a checkrais if no one fold and he think they will not do that if he checkraise either and he know that the other player will not 3-bet. But when I think of it now then it might be wrong to do that!!! To many if! And if it did go that way then I do not now if the odds is good enough. I was thinking that he could win with a 9 at the river too but that is not for sure since the other player might have KQ....

But if it is that way and all this criteriums are fulfild (I see now that they probably is not, but if). Then that gives us 12 outs. My maths is bad today. Is it ok to raise then? What is the odds?

flexus · #12 06-13-2004, 07:37 PM

If we have twelve outs the turn can indeed be checkraised for value should the player on his left bet and all players call. We are getting 3-1 on the money that goes in, and we are slightly less than 1-3 underdog to spike one of the twelwe outs.

I think it is absurd though, too assume that we have twelve clean outs. The only thing we dare extract value from on the river (do alot of raising and betting) is if we hit the flush. Also, If we make the turn checkraise we prolly have to see a SD anyway because the pot would be so large.

nothumb · #13 06-13-2004, 07:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Should everybody hate me for this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind if my opponents hate me.

Check the words of Noted Poker Authority 50 Cent: "If n*ggas hate then let 'em hate and watch the money pile up."

I would have told the table, "I just had a feeling about that one."

NT

Zeiros · #14 06-13-2004, 08:14 PM

Hi Flexus,

I'm asking your opinion on this because you do seem to have given this hand a lot of thought, are knowlegable about hold'em and also are willing to tell somebody when they are wrong.

You picked out my turn bet as being particularly suspect. I'd agree with you here and am trying to sort out in my head exactly what to do...

At the time I just had just picked up a flush draw so my natural reaction was to think: "Flush draw! bet! bet! bet!" and so had a go at it. Betting for value, like I did at the time, was wrong, but in retrospect I still think (as described in my last post) that betting the turn was the correct course of action.

thanks for the amount of time you've spent looking at this hand!

--Z

Danenania · #15 06-13-2004, 11:21 PM

What hands are you hoping they'll fold to your turn bet? I don't think anyone with a hand that's worth worrying about is going anywhere by now. Plus you have good implied odds on them if they stick around: your final spade(the only thing you should really be happy to see) might make them two-pair, a set, or a straight and cause them to pay you off on the river. I think at this point you want to get to the river as cheaply as possible.

flexus · #16 06-14-2004, 04:06 AM

The reason I don't want to bet the turn is that a bet wont achieve anything but perhaps fold one of the opponents. All od them will not fold. Period. There, we have eliminatd one of the reason to bet; namely top fold the entire field. The other reason would be to bet for value, but we have already discussed that and concluded that valuebetting cannot be done in this situation. So, by risking, we achieve nothing and risk being raised so we have to put more money into a pot we are not favoured to win (assuming our TP is not good).

But, you have a flush draw, so you are going to see the last card. The course of action here in the micros is to check and call if there is a bet. Checking and calling is often correct on the turn with draws against opponents who play poorly and pays little attention to how you play.

SeppDeitrich · #17 06-14-2004, 05:58 AM

preflop: fold, period. k9 is too weak to play up front no matter how bad the table is. you should als hate this raise no matter how loose the raiser is, but since you're in, call.

flop: fine

turn: the turn bet is your biggest mistake in my oppinion, mp raised the flop. so he may well raise again here, you don't want to bet your flush draw since his raise will probably fold out the two flop coldcallers. let mp bet, let the calling stations do their thing, then if all 3 players are still in you could consider a raise when it comes back to you.

river: again fine

flexus · #18 06-14-2004, 07:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
then if all 3 players are still in you could consider a raise when it comes back to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

big nono

Siingo · #19 06-14-2004, 10:58 AM

Thanks!

And yes it is absurd. I know... But I did just ask becaus that I had got a black out! I could not count odds and that feelt very bad. But it was becaus it was late night. When I woke up at the morning then I knew the anser myself.

But thanks anyway. It feelt a awfull to not be able to cunt odds. Play poker and not be able to count odds suck!!!!!