1/2 Is there a huge difference in play?

[Hellmouth]

I dont want this to turn into a bitching session but Ive been getting killed at 1/2. Every time I take a shot, I drop 20-50BB in a single session. I have not yet had a winning session.

The thing is that everytime I go back to .50/1 I crush it. Ive been crushing it for 10,000 hands at over 8BB/100.

Yes I understand varience. I know that I have only played about 1000 hands at 1/2 but the real problem is that it feels like I am getting out played. I have had some suckouts but that doesnt bother me. The thing that bothers me is when I read the board incorrectly or incorrectly interpret someones betting. I almost feel like Ive optimized my play at .50/1 to the point where I have some terrible habits that need to be unlearned to move up.

If anyone out there has switched limits or has any experience with making the switch, specifically at paradise poker, let me know.

If you are going to post about variance, dont bother. I want strategy related posts.

Thanks \

Greg

[Zeiros]

Take a read of this...

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...art=1&vc=1

[mwilli31]

How many tables are you playing at each limit? The swings are gonna be there, but if you're playing more than 2 tables at 1/2, try playing fewer tables and concentrating on your play. Also, maybe try moving to a party skin and playing for a bonus so you won't have to worry so much about a downswing when you're getting bonus money. Another option would be to build your roll up to 350-400BB for 1/2 by beating .5/1 at a good rate. Then when you make the move your swings won't affect you so much mentally. Good luck.

[Hellmouth]

thanks man, that is a great post. I tried to search but its hard to get a good search topic sometimes, and I didnt see this thread the first time it came around.

Greg

[benkath1]

Patience my man. You're good enough to play it. I moved to party from paradise and there's just not much difference in the two limits. The preflop play is a little tighter, not as much crazy raising, but the postflop play is terrible. I'm gonna try paradise 1/2 on their next reload. I had the same problem moving from .25/.50 to .50/1 at paradise. No bad beats till I moved up and they stung more.

If you feel the players are better than you leave. If they are making dumb mistakes and getting lucky, hang in there till you get your money back. You'll feel alot better. It might take a couple thousand hands to get the feel of bigger bets and different plays, it is a slightly different game, but when you do you wont have any problem.

[PygmyHero]

I posted a thread about this a few days ago. My last post gives my thoughts about some strategic adjustments. Unfortunately, the thread died pretty quickly and no one really responded to it.

I have the same problem you have - I literally crush $0.50-$1 (and have for well over 10K hands - I think I give a rough count in the thread I linked to), and I have a decent number of $1-$2 hands (again over 10K), but my win rate is not even comparable (in BB / 100 that is).

One thought though - if I were to look at my hourly $ win rate for each limit it is probably higher at $0.50-$1, BUT when you factor in faster bonus clearance for $1-$2 this gap may narrow / cease to exist. I know someone pointed out the value of the bonus before me, but it's a really good point and bears repeating. Then if you factor in learning more and improving your game, $1-$2 now comes out ahead in terms of overall value. At least, that's how I'm looking at it.

Good luck.

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
How many tables are you playing at each limit? The swings are gonna be there, but if you're playing more than 2 tables at 1/2, try playing fewer tables and concentrating on your play. Also, maybe try moving to a party skin and playing for a bonus so you won't have to worry so much about a downswing when you're getting bonus money. Another option would be to build your roll up to 350-400BB for 1/2 by beating .5/1 at a good rate. Then when you make the move your swings won't affect you so much mentally. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have my bankroll up to 450BB for 1/2. Its actually been higher. I think part of the problem is that I three table at .50/1 so I always end up at the end of the night. (at least 90% of the time anyways). I started at 1/2 with one table and actually started playing 2 at a time because I was thinking that maybe seeing a few more hands and seeing that things were averaging out if I was down at one table and up at another might help me psychologically. Most times I play either one or two tables because I cant play more and still read the players well at .50/1. At .50/1 I mostly play on autopilot.

The main problem that I see is that the players are significantly trickier, and I think that it is affecting my reads. Then after screwing up my reads a half dozen times in a row I start to tilt away anything that I won. I also think that I am out thinking myself on some of the hands, folding too many winners and calling down to many losers. I know Ill get it with some effort.

Time to crack open SSHE for the 6'th read.

Greg

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
Patience my man. You're good enough to play it. I moved to party from paradise and there's just not much difference in the two limits. The preflop play is a little tighter, not as much crazy raising, but the postflop play is terrible. I'm gonna try paradise 1/2 on their next reload. I had the same problem moving from .25/.50 to .50/1 at paradise. No bad beats till I moved up and they stung more.

If you feel the players are better than you leave. If they are making dumb mistakes and getting lucky, hang in there till you get your money back. You'll feel alot better. It might take a couple thousand hands to get the feel of bigger bets and different plays, it is a slightly different game, but when you do you wont have any problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks man. I guess the difference for me is that I started to win immediately when I moved from .25/50 to .50/1 and I'm taking my lumps now.

Its not really the size of the bets that bothers me as much as the fact that I feel I cant protect my money as well. It makes no sense but if I win a big hand, I just give it back and then some.

Yes I have gotten some terrible beats but Im trying not to focus on them. They happen. I am concerned that I am being outplayed. I am hoping that within a few thousand hands, Im going to look back on this and realize it was just me overreacting to a temporary downswing.

Greg

[Absolution]

This could definitely be your problem.

Going from .05/.1 to .25/.50 and the levels in between I haven't notice any difference. You still have huge multiway pots every hand and nobody using any semblance of post flop (or pre flop for that matter) strategy. Usually the pots are so huge that everybody goes to show down every hand. You just play good starting hands, see a higher percentage of flops with connectors and small pp, and bet for value every time you have something. If someone wakes up they hit their draw. It's simple and easy to win (too bad a good night = maybe $20).

After that you move into small stakes territory and I think you make a big jump in difficulty every level you jump up from there (depending on where you play I suppose). I was watching some of the 1/2 and 2/4 games and it was educational. Sometimes nobody even sees the flop (not happening at my levels) and when they do it's usually short handed. A lot of mistakes at the level seem to be post flop and that's more difficult to get good at (any monkey can remember starting hands and even preflop theory). Instead of getting mostly loose passives, you get mostly tight passives (although you have to be on the lookout for those loose passive tables and jump in!). They can still be exploited, but not for as much and it takes a different set of skills entirely.

Anyway, the point is that your probably right, you've got to accustomed to winning primarily by just having a better understanding of preflop strategy and some basic odds/equity math. I could be wrong, but I'd start rereading books/posts on post flop play, start using table selection techniques and concentrate more on your reads. You can no longer play ABC monkey poker and expect to win. Go down to one table and really work at it. You have to start thinking out every decision.

[mwilli31]

[ QUOTE ]
The main problem that I see is that the players are significantly trickier, and I think that it is affecting my reads. Then after screwing up my reads a half dozen times in a row I start to tilt away anything that I won. I also think that I am out thinking myself on some of the hands, folding too many winners and calling down to many losers. I know Ill get it with some effort.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know exactly how you feel. First 1k hands were pretty rough for me too. If you start tilting, just saw screw it and open up a couple .5/1 tables and once you've let off some steam, jump back in to it. Playing on tilt will cause you to, like you said, "throw away anything you won." Post some of those hands you felt like you screwed up your reads on and more than likely you're going to get confirmation on here that you played it well. Oh, and make sure you post those reads [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. Hang in there.