AJo...WAY overplayed

Hoss1193 · #1 09-23-2005, 12:27 AM

1/2 PP, had not been at the table more than 2 orbits, had no real read on the villain prior to this hand.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 6 folds, SB completes, BB :#A500AF(Villain)/ checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Villain bets, Hero raises, SB calls, Villain 3-bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

I figured villain was perhaps betting out with a 9. With only 3 in, I liked my overcards, backdoor nutflush draw, and last-to-act position. I raised here because I thought I had a good shot at getting to see free cards later. The three-bet was definitely an alarm bell...and one I don't think I sufficiently heeded. Should have signalled 2-pair at a minimum, since I had no read this guy was a particularly reckless player.

Turn: (6 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Villain bets, Hero raises, SB calls, Villain 3-bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

I'm still thinking Villain has A9 or maybe nutflush draw here...that's why I raised again. I finally wake up on his second 3-bet of the hand, and know he has me beat, whether it's 2 pair, set, or straight.

River: (15 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Villain bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

I call mainly because of the pot size...I'm almost certain he has me beat here.

Final Pot: 18 BB

In reviewing this hand, I think my preflop and flop play was okay. I think my river play, despite the fact I know I'm beat, is all right too because of the size of the pot.

I think my play on the turn, however, sucked; Villain's flop 3-bet should have been a clear warning that he had something better than a measly TPTK or diamond draw. Thoughts?

tyler_cracker · #2 09-23-2005, 01:10 AM

I like a raise preflop, but that seems to be mostly a matter of taste (and texture of the table).

Given the turn 3-bet and the powerful suckiness of that river, i actually think you can fold.

The turn raise is close. I liked it at first, but i think that's because i'm a LAG, and was going to advocate just calling down, but with SB in there i like the raise again.

Overall, i don't think you did too bad.

Redd · #3 09-23-2005, 01:15 AM

Gotta raise preflop.

The way it played out, you overthought yourself on the flop. Here's the most important thing you need to consider:
[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (3 SB)

[/ QUOTE ]

This pot is far too tiny to fight over; you definitely don't have odds to draw. I would just fold it off the get-go.

tyler_cracker · #4 09-23-2005, 01:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This pot is far too tiny to fight over; you definitely don't have odds to draw. I would just fold it off the get-go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed this (because i'm used to the pot being raised when i have AJ [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). I agree that you should just fold this flop.

Student Caine · #5 09-23-2005, 01:54 AM

I don't think we can simply say that he is calling with only a 9, but even if we assume that we still need to improve. So we have the following out:

Overcards = 3.0
Backdoor flush = 1.5

I think we need to discount the overcard outs as there is a flush draw out as well as the potential for a straight. So here we have 4.5 outs, which means we need about 10:1 to call here. You are only getting 4:1 if you just call here, obviously your raise hurts you even more here.

When he 3-bets you are getting 8:1 so you are still not getting what you need to call here.

CaptainCrunch · #6 09-23-2005, 02:08 PM

Grunch:

No preflop raise? I know its off suit, but more times than not, I like a raise with these cards.

Flop, I guess thats ok, given overcard and BDFD possibilities...

His 3bet on the turn is a warning flag, definitely (against an unknown) so I go into cautious mode, even with TPTK.

River sucks, I'm leaning towards a fold here, but SSHE preaches a loose call here if we've got a chance of winning. Whats our chance of winning here? We beat only pairs under JJ, Villain is the BB so who knows WTF he has. 96o? 25s?

I'm thinking I might not overcall here however.

Fantam · #7 09-23-2005, 02:30 PM

Villain's flop 3-bet may have been with a set or 2 pair. However, I think that villain may still have 3-bet with TPGK thinking that he had the best hand. He may have considered that you were unlikely to have an overpair as you didnt raise preflop.

I thought that you were correct to raise the turn, because you may have just improved to the best hand. I agree that villain's turn 3-bet suggests that he probably has you beat. However, by then the pot had become so big that I think that calling down became correct, in case your hand was best.

Where I would have played your hand differently is that I would have folded to the flop bet. With only 4 small bets in the pot at that stage, I dont think that it was worth chasing with overcards, despite also having the backdoor nut flush draw.

I also would have preferred to open raise preflop, but some players like to limp from EP, and I would not consider that to be a mistake.

jrz1972 · #8 09-23-2005, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In reviewing this hand, I think my preflop and flop play was okay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate both of these streets. First of all, raise PF. Second, raising the flop is just spewing.

The whole hand plays differently if you correctly take the initiative preflop.

#9 09-23-2005, 02:46 PM

(grunching)

I would probably fold AJo from UTG. It's a weak hand, and you don't even know your opponents yet! If I wasn't going to raise it, I'd fold. Since you didn't raise, villain doesn't view you as a threat.

Flop: You could easy fold that tiny pot. I might call and look for a diamond or my overcard on the turn. When you get 3-bet, without any reads, maybe from a laggy player, you're looking at his draw, or any pair, but he could have two pair. BB has any two cards. Since you raised, you want to play, so I guess I'd call the 3-bet and still hope for my A, J or diamond.

Turn: Call. No reads and he's still betting into you after you called his 3-bet. Why do you think you have the best hand?? It's not even the J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

River: That's a big pot, but I think yer dead. SB maybe has his draw, which is the only reason I figure he's still there. Sometimes the fish hang around with their 2nd pair. I'd make a crying call. This was lost on the flop.

#10 09-23-2005, 03:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I figured villain was perhaps betting out with a 9.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what stuck out for me, because you may have done something that I occasionally do: forget this guy only had to check his blind in an unraised pot. So to put him on a logical hand isn't as easy as it is for someone who decided to pay to see the flop. So he could be on any number of hands here that have you beat. Having said that, I think your only questionable play was raising him again on the turn. Even though you hit your pair, it's still too likely he has you beat, especially if that overcard didn't slow him down. I would go into call-down mode at this point. Folding is wrong because of the large pot and your chance to redraw, if he's only holding two pair.