Stupid spot...

AviD · #1 12-29-2005, 02:48 PM

wackjob, I'm a little confused, you want to check this turn in OPs position with the intention of raising it with BB being the aggressor. I'm not sure where you stand on this hand here, as BB is the one CRing here.

wackjob · #2 12-29-2005, 03:22 PM

I'm a putz and misread the hand. I hadn't realized that villain cr'd the turn. I'd fold as well.

AviD · #3 12-29-2005, 03:48 PM

It's ok, I putz all the time and misread hands! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I still think as the hand played out, you are forced to fold barring some solid read on the BB, which is why I question the turn check line despite it being seemingly weak-tight...I just hate folding the best hand here.

Alobar · #4 12-29-2005, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's ok, I putz all the time and misread hands! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I still think as the hand played out, you are forced to fold barring some solid read on the BB, which is why I question the turn check line despite it being seemingly weak-tight...I just hate folding the best hand here.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe u are being a tad results oreinted, since he did get c/r here. How often do you expect him to get c/r tho? checking seems awfully weak with 2 people in the hand

wackjob · #5 12-29-2005, 04:01 PM

I most certainly think you are always beaten here after you are c/r on the turn. This is a standard fold for me except against a total maniac.

AviD · #6 12-29-2005, 04:03 PM

It could be my line is being influenced by the results, and as I said it feels awfully weak-tight. But we have no read on the BB, would he 3-bet any ace here and CR the ace on the turn? What about some other range that we are way ahead of?

You are put in a position here where you can't check the turn because it feels so weak-tight and because there is a single diamond draw out there (which is coming anyway), but you can't call a raise. So given the range of hands, many of which you are ahead of, that may be CRed here by the BB (player dependent), I simply hate following a standard bet, fold to a CR given the board and game in question. Too many times I've been semibluff raised with a AxZd here that I am ahead of but has a redraw against me or some other random lower pair that has a diamond.

If you follow this as a default, a thinking player can pick you off here consistently and show a huge profit knowing he can get you to fold a better hand in a reasonably large pot. Of course, you too are likely calling with a diamond, so the chances decrease somewhat.

But my main question is, do you want to get bluffed or semibluffed off this hand by betting it as a default? The weight of this answer is in the player profile of BB and what range of hands he'd do this with. I would be fine betting this and folding, I'd also be fine betting this and calling down, I'm still debating if I like checking it and giving that free look to CO and BB. If they have a piece I am ahead of they are drawing to 5 outs mostly without a diamond...and coming with the diamond anyway. Checking may convince them you don't have an Ace and either get BB to bet when he would have otherwise folded to a turn bet, and CO to call being convinced you don't have an Ace and his T may be worth a call. Either way, a situation where you can get an overcall those times you are ahead and/or getting weaker hands to bet/call when they are beat and may have folded to your turn bet fearing you holding the ace.