some 5/10 full hands

poker1O1 · #1 12-17-2005, 03:17 PM

In this hand, villian is typical TAG, I really only wanted to put more chips in was if a Q hit, and I would call any river bet if a T or J came, then the A came and even though I didn't really represent that, i bet it anyway, comments on all streets.
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB folds
Final Pot:
5.20 BB

Is this a river bet/fold? villian is 25/9
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP3 folds, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

unknown villian, simple AA maximization OOP
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 2 folds, Hero caps, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.70 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls.

River: (12.70 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 14.70 BB

villian is 20/9/1.5, comments on all streets appreciated, probably wouldn't call a river bet though not sure
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (5.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.70 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: 5.70 BB

#2 12-17-2005, 04:09 PM

I think your play is fine on every street in every one of your hands. The one hand I wouldve played differently is the AA hand where you bet, he raised and you chose to call and go for the turn checkraise. I prefer 3 betting right away, the reason being is, there are alot of cards that can potentially kill your action on the turn. If the villain has a 88-QQ type hand, any A,K,Q,J on the turn could potentially kill your action. For example, lets say the villain has JJ, and you wait til the turn to checkraise, if a Queen hits the turn and you checkraise him, he may fold, and since he is drawing to just two outs this is bad for your hand, but if you'd 3 bet the flop, he wouldve surely called down. Or if a King or and Ace hits, the villain may check behind on the turn. For all these reasons, I prefer the 3bet flop/lead turn line, when somebody raises me on this kind of flop, and I believe the 3 bet/lead turn line will make more money in the long run than going for the turn checkraise.
If the flop had been Kxx and you bet and he raised, now I like waiting til the turn to checkraise since there are almost no cards that can ruin your play on the turn.

goofball · #3 12-17-2005, 04:20 PM

too many hands, too jumbled.

hand 1: why are you 3betting? You should only be doign this if you're confident enough in your J and T outs to bet them if they hit. River bet is fine and won't work often but should work often enough to be worth it.

hand 2: fine whatever. That's the power of position. Doing anything else for you is fairly spewy.

hand 3: Good but I tend to just 3bet that flop to prevent him from checking behind on the turn. Also if he's on clubs he 3bets you on that turn and wouldn't that suck.

hand 4: I think you should calla river bet in hand 4, I don't know about your obsession with 3betting the flop with gutshot and marginal pair outs though. He's as tight as you say (so much so that you want to fold second pair on the river after that action) then your only outs are jacks and why even bother.

#4 12-17-2005, 06:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
too many hands, too jumbled.

hand 1: why are you 3betting? You should only be doign this if you're confident enough in your J and T outs to bet them if they hit. River bet is fine and won't work often but should work often enough to be worth it.

hand 2: fine whatever. That's the power of position. Doing anything else for you is fairly spewy.

hand 3: Good but I tend to just 3bet that flop to prevent him from checking behind on the turn. Also if he's on clubs he 3bets you on that turn and wouldn't that suck.

hand 4: I think you should calla river bet in hand 4, I don't know about your obsession with 3betting the flop with gutshot and marginal pair outs though. He's as tight as you say (so much so that you want to fold second pair on the river after that action) then your only outs are jacks and why even bother.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whenever I have a gutshot draw heads up, and I am checkraised. The standard line is usually to call one more and fold the turn unimproved. But If I believe that a 3 bet will get me a free card, then 3 betting becomes better than calling. So there are many situations where the hero should be 3 betting even with just a gutshot if he is up against the right opponent. Since the hero succeeded in getting his free card in both hands, I assumed he probably read the situation accurately, which is why i didnt initially comment on the play. Obviously if the Hero is always 3 betting with gutshots he will be spewing.
In hand four, the hero didnt give the action on the river, but I would call the river also, there are still somehands the hero is ahead of like any broken flushdraw.

goofball · #5 12-17-2005, 06:29 PM

let's talk abotu a reasonable range for villian in hand 4. He's 20/9, he open limped in MP, called a raise, the checkraised the Ad 2h Th flop.

How's: A2s+, QhJh, Jh9h, A9o+?

If that's good then it's indeed to call the flop checkraise getting 8:1, and fold the turn getting ~6:1

Flop:
Board: Ad Th 2h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 19.2466 % 19.08% 00.17% { KhQs }
Hand 2: 80.7534 % 80.59% 00.17% { A2s+, QhJh, Jh9h, A9o+ }

Turn:
Board: Ad Th 2h 5d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 10.2740 % 10.27% 00.00% { KhQs }
Hand 2: 89.7260 % 89.73% 00.00% { A2s+, QhJh, Jh9h, A9o+ }

#6 12-17-2005, 06:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
let's talk abotu a reasonable range for villian in hand 4. He's 20/9, he open limped in MP, called a raise, the checkraised the Ad 2h Th flop.

How's: A2s+, QhJh, Jh9h, A9o+?

If that's good then it's indeed to call the flop checkraise getting 8:1, and fold the turn getting ~6:1

Flop:
Board: Ad Th 2h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 19.2466 % 19.08% 00.17% { KhQs }
Hand 2: 80.7534 % 80.59% 00.17% { A2s+, QhJh, Jh9h, A9o+ }

Turn:
Board: Ad Th 2h 5d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 10.2740 % 10.27% 00.00% { KhQs }
Hand 2: 89.7260 % 89.73% 00.00% { A2s+, QhJh, Jh9h, A9o+ }

[/ QUOTE ]
The range of the villain's hand is irrelevant to me. If I believe that I will get a free card by 3 betting the flop, then 3 betting the flop is clearly betting than calling. If the hero has the odds to call one small bet on the flop, then it makes sense to 3 bet and pay two small bets to see the river. But this play is risky, it wont always work out as perfectly as I outlined since ther hero could easly get capped or get bet into on the turn which is why to make this play the hero needs to choose his opponents carefully. Against the right opponent, 3 betting with a gutshot definitely has its place.

poker1O1 · #7 12-17-2005, 10:29 PM

sorry, had some converter problems, hand 4 river went check check
hand2: 88
hand3: KK
hand4: T7
As for 3 betting with position with a gutshot, i never see it on this forum but thought it was a very viable play, a lower pocket pair could be testing your hand, plus if you pair your hand instead of hitting your gutshot you might get a free SD.
As far as the AA hand, I think a better example would have been a flop w/o a flush draw, but, I think he represented at least 99 there, and with someone behind him he would have to raise that flop if he was a good player, which he did, and I wanted to represent AK up til the turn c/r.