Good enough to take a stand?

[SoBeDude]

Paradise 100K last night. We're in the money.

Just ran into QQ and I suddenly find myself short.

So I have 12K in chips. Average stack is around 30K. Blinds are: 600/1200, 75 Ante.

THIS TABLE IS AGGRESSIVE! That whole idea of waiting until its folded to you in LP IS PURE FANTASY. There is a raise EVERY HAND from EARLY or MID position.

I mention this because the liklihood of me getting a cheap shot at stealing the blinds is VERY LOW IMO.

The big stack at the table was raising a LOT, almost every hand if first to act. After 4 fold, he throws out a raise to 3K. This is a typical raise for him. I think he's doing it because he can let go of it easily if someone comes over him.

So he's in mid-late position and doesn't need much for cards here based on how he's playing.

I'm in the BB with Q7o.

So my first thoughts are a stop n go.

Does this sound like a good idea to anyone?

-Scott

[curtains]

I think you have too many chips to do anything so exotic at this point. You'll still have 9000 behind after the flop, to call preflop with the idea of betting the flop blindly seems too fancy to me.

You can't always force things in MTTs, and stopping+going seems like an attempt to force something in an unwise situation instead of being patient and hoping a better situation occurs.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]

I think you have too many chips to do anything so exotic at this point. You'll still have 9000 behind after the flop, to call preflop with the idea of betting the flop blindly seems too fancy to me.

You can't always force things in MTTs, and stopping+going seems like an attempt to force something in an unwise situation instead of being patient and hoping a better situation occurs.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a rule I agree, but I felt the conditions at my table were such that it might not be a bad idea.

So I seriously thought about doing this play, then decided against it and folded.

I then proceeded to never get a chance to be first in in any sort of later position.

There was ALWAYS at least a limp, if not a raise in front of me. And I didn't have enough chips that after someone raised, that they'd lay down to me pushing.

My final hand was a LP limp, and I pushed with K8s on the button. The blinds folded, LP called with 33 and I got no help.

So working backward from my last hand to the BB hand I posted, I really had no other opportunities and of course caught no real hands.

And I find this to often be the case, those fabled 'better opportunities' are just that...often just fables.

-Scott

[curtains]

Yes, sometimes you will get no good oppurtunities in tournaments, and I think you just have to accept that. It's impossible to always have control and trying something like a stop+go here is, in my opinion, an attempt to control something that you cannot. I believe that sometimes it will turn out that your best option is to simply hope to get dealt good cards.

Also sorry I went nuts in that other thread.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]

Yes, sometimes you will get no good oppurtunities in tournaments, and I think you just have to accept that. It's impossible to always have control and trying something like a stop+go here is, in my opinion, an attempt to control something that you cannot. I believe that sometimes it will turn out that your best option is to simply hope to get dealt good cards.

Also sorry I went nuts in that other thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

(Other thread is forgotten about. what thread?)

I totally agree that some times the desired control is nonexistent.

But I hate the 'hope something appears in my hands' strategy as well.

I prefer to take the initiative and try to make something happen, then just fold myself in to oblivion. Kinda the "go down swinging" approach to short stack play.

At the point of the Q7 BB, I thought there were three factors making it a potentially good play:

1. the table was aggressive and I felt I'd get few, if any, chances later on unless I caught cards.

2. I still have enough chips to hurt the raiser if he calls and loses.

3. I was getting a good price to see the flop.

And one thing I have learned is you're better off making a move with cheese earlier, when your stack is bigger and more of a threat, then when you're a bug to be squashed.

But I still dunno...

-Scott

I'd give a stop and go about a 70% success rate here vs a normal stack including FE and when you actually win, however since he is the big stack (how big?), is he capable of folding or is he a big enough stack to take a risk for that many chips, is he solid / do you think he understands the concept of stop n go and realizes you can make a move like this with any two; I don't have enough details to decide if this is the spot I pick.

[bruce]

How about reraising all in from the BB if they're raising every hand. If the raiser is capable of folding I think this is your best option. Even if he calls unless he has
one of your cards or a medium to big pair you can't be in horrible shape. I think a stop n go is too risky. Your going to push blindly hoping the big stack missed. You have no idea what he has and what are you going to do if the flop comes A K 3? Are you really going to push?

Bruce

[Newt_Buggs]

Calling and having 9K in a 7K pot isn't a very good time to pull off a stop n go. If you really think that he's bullying this much then he has to be raising some junk hands that he will probably lay down to a push pf. If you still think that the will call given pot odds then its probably best to just let this one go.