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  #1  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:31 PM
GtrHtr GtrHtr is offline
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Default Playing midpairs from postion

I'm curious about how some of you play midpairs from LP in the early levels. It was suggested to me that this might be a push PF considering the number of limpers and the fact that the biggie is in EP and less likely to call with what he may have limped with.

Aside from that, comments on all streets welcome.


PartyPoker, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t1005)
MP2 (t745)
MP1 (t785)
UTG+1 (t2250)
UTG (t782)
BB (t775)
SB (t1008)
Hero (t650)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, CO calls t30, Hero calls t30, SB calls t15, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

Flop: (t180) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, 2 checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t180) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets t60</font>, CO calls t60, Hero calls t60, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG folds</font>

River: (t360) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
<font color="red">UTG+1 bets t120</font>, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero bets t560 (All-in)</font>, UTG+1 calls t440
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  #2  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:41 PM
Maulik Maulik is offline
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Default Re: Playing midpairs from postion

bet the flop.

raies the turn.
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:45 PM
Maulik Maulik is offline
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Default Re: Playing midpairs from postion

[ QUOTE ]
It was suggested to me that this might be a push PF given my stack and the possiblility of a call by the biggie.


[/ QUOTE ]

that's terrible.
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  #4  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:51 PM
GtrHtr GtrHtr is offline
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Default Re: Playing midpairs from postion

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was suggested to me that this might be a push PF given my stack and the possiblility of a call by the biggie.


[/ QUOTE ]

that's terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I misrepresented the push reasoning, OP edited.
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  #5  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:53 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: Playing midpairs from postion

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was suggested to me that this might be a push PF given my stack and the possiblility of a call by the biggie.


[/ QUOTE ]

that's terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is that? The only stack size who is any real threat to call him is the bigstack, who was the 2nd limper. He likely doesn't have much of a hand. Now, there's 3 limpers in the pot. Pot size is 135, which is 20% of OP's stack. The bottom line is that in the unlikely event that he IS called, he will often be on the good end of a coinflip. Are you concerned that one of the limpers has TT+? I'm not. But most likely, he's not getting called. His stack will be back up to 785. Whereas, just calling, in most cases, leads to him folding on the flop, which will be seen by probably 6 players. In that scenario, his stack is down to 620. People forget that just because he's called (if he is) does not mean that he's called by a better hand. Many times when he's called, he doubles up.

Pushing makes alot of sense.

Merely writing 'thats terrible' does not accomplish anything.
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:05 PM
Maulik Maulik is offline
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Default Re: Playing midpairs from postion

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was suggested to me that this might be a push PF given my stack and the possiblility of a call by the biggie.


[/ QUOTE ]

that's terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is that? The only stack size who is any real threat to call him is the bigstack, who was the 2nd limper. He likely doesn't have much of a hand. Now, there's 3 limpers in the pot. Pot size is 135, which is 20% of OP's stack. The bottom line is that in the unlikely event that he IS called, he will often be on the good end of a coinflip. Are you concerned that one of the limpers has TT+? I'm not. But most likely, he's not getting called. His stack will be back up to 785. Whereas, just calling, in most cases, leads to him folding on the flop, which will be seen by probably 6 players. In that scenario, his stack is down to 620. People forget that just because he's called (if he is) does not mean that he's called by a better hand. Many times when he's called, he doubles up.

Pushing makes alot of sense.

Merely writing 'thats terrible' does not accomplish anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

How often do you think villain will be called by overs or called by an underpair? Pushing to pick up &lt;20% seems unncessary. By playing the hand normally he's going to get a shot at playing for a double up with little risk (if he misses his set).
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:18 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: Playing midpairs from postion

[ QUOTE ]
How often do you think villain will be called by overs or called by an underpair?

[/ QUOTE ]

See, you're making my point. He's not getting called very often. Don't underestimate the value of 135 chips when you're sitting on 650. Those chips are VERY valuable to him at this point. How often is he going to win that pot 6 handed with his 9's? Not very. Then he's down to 620 chips, with the blinds soon to be at 25-50.

The 'risk' is the missed opportunity to easily add 20% to his stack.

Think of the overlay as well. I don't really mind being called by overs. We'd be a favorite WITH overlay in the pot. Sounds good to me. We don't have the luxury with our stack / the blinds going up to 25-50 to wait around for a better chance than this.
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:19 AM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: Playing midpairs from postion

Allin preflop is automatic, everything else is flat out terrible. There are 135 chips in the pot, meanwhile you have just 650. If you just call here you are making a pretty large mistake that will cost you quite a bit of money over the longrun. You cant pass up such a huge +EV spot to increase your stack by over 20%
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