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  #11  
Old 12-15-2005, 07:00 PM
Prod1gy Prod1gy is offline
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Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

If this happens, I could potentially read the text out of the chat window. Problem with that is it doesn't provide enough information usually to completely create the hand history as it is in the hhf's.

If they are no longer generating observed histories or hhf's I am wondering how applications like Pokertracker will handle it.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:40 PM
excession excession is offline
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Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

Er like it does at Stars - you will need to be dealt into the hand to have hh written to your hard drive.

If they do decide to stop the dataminers (no bad thing given how easy to abuse it is IMHO) then they will probably also follow Stars in banning screenscraping..


That will just leave Prima (where you can;t see mucked hands even if you are in a hand) and the UB 'insta-mining' as sites for getting hh where you aren't dealt in on them..
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:42 PM
SamIAm SamIAm is offline
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Location: Under the gun.
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Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

[ QUOTE ]
Problem with that is it doesn't provide enough information usually to completely create the hand history as it is in the hhf's.

[/ QUOTE ]Really? Look at everything that happens when the dealer's set to "Everything". That's not enough to reconstruct?

[ QUOTE ]
If they are no longer generating observed histories or hhf's I am wondering how applications like Pokertracker will handle it.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't much see what Pokertracker's got to do with it. You'll still have hand histories, just not OBSERVED hand histories. Maybe Pat will write a screen-scraper, but I doubt it.
-Sam

P.S. I actually hope Pat doesn't get involved with this. I can run a mining app from a machine I haven't logged into Party with. Not true for PTracker. I don't want PTracker on the banned list.
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:45 PM
SamIAm SamIAm is offline
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Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

You say "They'll outlaw scraping" like that's the end of it. The thing is, if I can open as many instances of Party as I want, and load 4 tables on each w/o logging in, I don't much care what they allow. They're not going to be able to stop me.

I like mining better when it's legal, but I don't see a big problem in running against their rules here.
-Sam
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  #15  
Old 12-15-2005, 09:14 PM
zram21 zram21 is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

[ QUOTE ]
You say "They'll outlaw scraping" like that's the end of it. The thing is, if I can open as many instances of Party as I want, and load 4 tables on each w/o logging in, I don't much care what they allow. They're not going to be able to stop me.

I like mining better when it's legal, but I don't see a big problem in running against their rules here.
-Sam

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because you haven't logged in with your ID yet doesn't mean that there are not ways to determine who you are. Assuming you save your ID and password they could potantially read that information out of the file it is sotred in on your machine. They also at the very least will log the IP address that made the connection and you could have trouble if you end up logging in from the same IP that they logged a screen scraping program from.

Party has shown that they are willing to take steps to keep people from using programs they deem against their T&C. They have already shown in the past that they scan your machine for programs that they have banned. Once you make a connection to their servers they can do that whether you log in or not.

In addition it would be fairly simple to create a unique key based on the computer that is logging in for each instance pf party. Justr as Poker Ace, and Poker Tracker etc make a unique key for your installation. They could certainly set something up that just disallowed that instance of Party making a successful connection again no matter who logs in from it. Presumably you could get around this by reinstalling the program, but if they caught the program once they will certainly catch it again.

On top of all of that. They could always just fix the bug that allows you to spawn multiple copies of Party that would also be very easy to fix by just amking the program s5-10 seconds before it spawns and then run it's check to see if another isntance is running.

I don;t know if they will go to all of these lengths to stop data mining, but they certainly could and it wouldn;t be that difficult to do.
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  #16  
Old 12-15-2005, 10:51 PM
sthief09 sthief09 is offline
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Location: duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem (mets are 9-13, currently on a 1 game winning streak)
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Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

ok you have to realize that we are still their customers. they arent going to start banning accounts because it was used on a computer where someone was datamining without being logged in. there is a big difference between banning people for using poker-edge while logged in, and banning people for screen scraping without being logged in

but basically theres no use in worrying about this. itll suck a lot but theres nothing we can do
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2005, 01:58 AM
zram21 zram21 is offline
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Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

[ QUOTE ]
ok you have to realize that we are still their customers. they arent going to start banning accounts because it was used on a computer where someone was datamining without being logged in. there is a big difference between banning people for using poker-edge while logged in, and banning people for screen scraping without being logged in

but basically theres no use in worrying about this. itll suck a lot but theres nothing we can do

[/ QUOTE ]

I do realize that. I even specifically said I don't know if they will go to those type of lengths to stop this. I was simply responding to the statement "They're not going to be able to stop me." If they want to stop it they certainly can.
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2005, 05:40 AM
LVGamb00ler LVGamb00ler is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nevada, USA
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Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

Whatever Party does to try an prevent people from collecting HH's can be circumvented if someone is willing to spend enough time/money to do so.

Someone could simply create a device to read the digital signal sent to the LCD screen and scrape the screen with no software running on the poker client host. Party would be unable to detect this.

A robot could be created by combining the above device with another device that outputs the same signals (under the control of a 2nd computer as above) as a mouse and plugging that into the mouse port. Party would be unable to distinguish this from a human operating the mouse (assuming the programmer was smart enough to use some form of randomization when selecting which mouse co-ordinates to supply when clicking the mouse buttons).

As for Party tracking you by IP address....that is about the simplest surveillance method to circumvent (for the knowledgeable).

I don't know the specifics of how a virtual machine (running Windows) handles certain details, but it should appear to the Party servers as multiple unique computers, thus allowing someone to collect HH's from many tables using only one computer.

There are also several ways to conceal software running on the poker client machine that are a lot easier than any of the above methods. I suggest you search for information about rootkits if you're interested.

G'luck all,
LVGamb00ler
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  #19  
Old 12-17-2005, 10:02 AM
tigerite tigerite is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

It's not even screen scraping to get the text in the dealer history - you can use simple Windows API calls to do it, it's just text in a RichTextBox
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2005, 01:52 PM
Subby Subby is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 30
Default Re: Partymine going to be obsolete?

Going low tech for a moment- there will be nothing to stop groups of players from creating large shared databases from their own hand history files. Hopefully Party recognizes this and just continues to allow .hhf...
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