A9s 4 handed

[milesdyson]

I've presented two possible "results" of the same hand here. One of these two really happened, but I want to know what everyone thinks I should have done, mainly on the turn. Flop and river crap is definitely up for debate, as well (I think everything but preflop is questionable here). Which one was played better, or are there different mistakes in each making them both equally good or bad?



BB in this hand is 52/6/0.8 after 35 hands. I 3-tabled tonight (reads were harder to get), so my only note on the guy was:

"called QJ on AKK4 flop/turn in pos in tiny hu pot."

SB is very unknown. After 25 hands he is 38/0/2. Sorry folks but that is all [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].


Option 1--------------------------------------------
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.
-----------------------------------------------------

Option 2--------------------------------------------
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.
-----------------------------------------------------

[MrWookie47]

I think I like hand 1 the best.

[Augster]

Option 1 I make a crying call on the end. Good hand otherwise. Getting 12.5:1 with top pair, we'd have to be good occasionally, right?

Option 2: I raise the turn again.

I don't think I overcall on the river when the SB wakes up AGAIN when the flush/straight card hits. Here you are getting only 10.5:1 and have to beat two hands.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
Option 2: I raise the turn again.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol i gave this option as an option - for you to tell me what you think about just calling the turn, and in this option, overcalling that river.

[Jaran]

I favor hand one. I don't like calling the turn bet in hand 2. BTW, did you think about a raise on the flop? I'm not sure about it, but I'm thinking I might like it.

-Jaran

[shant]

I think this is a pretty cool way to post a hand and I like that we don't know which way it went.

Originally I liked Hand 2 better, but I was thinking that you can't overcall the river. The problem with that is the BB seems bad, and might call the river with a lot of hands. The SB's actions are really confusing to me too, but I still don't like the overcall.

I don't like raising the turn because you have to call the 3-bet, and there's a chance you were reverse dominated on the flop.

So yeah, I like Hand 2 if you don't overcall.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like calling the turn bet in hand 2.

[/ QUOTE ]
can you expand on this? maybe in terms of their hand ranges and whether or not i should want to spend some bucks here to protect?

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, did you think about a raise on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah i did. i took about all the time to decide and ended up just calling.

[Jaran]

The reason I don't like just calling here is it gives sb the odds to draw to two pr. I think his most likely holdings are 9T/TJ, possibly 8T. BB's bet most likely indicates an A. You didn't really say how aggressive he is with 3bets, but I think it likely he would 3bet pf AJ+ (this could be a fallacious assumption). He could also be semi-bluffing [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]'s. Either one, I want to raise it up. Once he 3bets, I of course would reevaluate and think I'm looking at at least 2pr (maybe A6,7). So, I like the river fold UI.

-Jaran

Warning: 6-max donkey grunch.

To be aggressive on the turn against a somewhat passive player or not pairing your A. I think that the second one is better. Personally, I may have played the hand like first since I'm new to 6-max and have been pressing the pedel too hard on more than one occasion.

If BB had lead out on the flop, I'd raise the turn and play it like hand number 1. Combine that with his passivity.
It looks like he hit either a stronger A than you (i.e. better kicker) or perhaps a raggedy 2 pair. But depending on BB's per street aggression tendencies, he may like to pop on the turn w/ sets (or maybe 2 pair). Unfortunately, 35 hands is a pretty small sample to determine how accurate these stats are. But if you've seen him pop once or twice, I would think that this would increase your confidence in this greatly.

It sems that hand number 2 has higher EV than the second in the long run.

Also, I think the other streets as they were played are fine. On hand number 1, it looks like you are behind and you didn't improve on the river. The second hand, a call down is fine.

[@bsolute_luck]

what about raising the flop? we have the gutshot, at least 1 overcard, and the BDFD.