small suited connectors, busy flop and turn

[bozlax]

Preflop is not necessarily a mistake. Why do you think it is in this case?

Given that UTG check/called/3-bet the flop, I think you can put him on a better flush draw than yours when he raises the turn (I'm thinking Ax in [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]s) and bail getting 8:1 for 3 outs to the bottom end of the straight. Whether I'd be able to do that in the heat of the moment, I don't know. I do know that I'd throw up in my mouth when it was 2 to me for the second time on this turn with a 5-high flush draw.

Edit: I missed the double-gutter the first time through. So that gives you 6 outs to the straight (I still think that your flush outs are toast), but I think you have to discount that because only one of those straights is the nuts. Any discount is enough to push it to a fold for me.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Only play hands like 54s PF in late position after several limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or from the blinds, depending on the action and pot size?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only play hands like 54s PF in late position after several limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or from the blinds, depending on the action and pot size?

[/ QUOTE ]

The blinds are late position...

In the blinds I'd only call a raise here if there are like at least 5 people seeing the flop, AND a very slim chance thta one of the EP limpers doesn't 3-bet. Yeah, usually I will fold this hand just because of the chance of someone 3-betting.

Closing the action in the BB to a riase against several callers is fine.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
The blinds are late position...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they aren't. It's a semantic issue (nit-picking for those of you not as erudite as I [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]), but just because you act last from the blinds preflop you should still draw a distinction between the blinds and late position, IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The blinds are late position...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they aren't. It's a semantic issue (nit-picking for those of you not as erudite as I [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]), but just because you act last from the blinds preflop you should still draw a distinction between the blinds and late position, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Groan.

The point is, if I say it's acceptable to play this hand from "late position", then it goes without saying that it's playable from either blind. I mean, please don't tell me you don't understand what I'm saying here.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
...then it goes without saying that it's playable from either blind. I mean, please don't tell me you don't understand what I'm saying here.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I understand completely. Of course, I'm not a newbie. And there are a few of those around. So, if you're going to go throwing yourself around like you know everything, you might want to make sure that the advice you give is precise, not just correct.

[ QUOTE ]
So, if you're going to go throwing yourself around like you know everything

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Why is every 2+2er relegated to saying pointless stuff like this? I don't know sh*t about poker and I don't claim to, either. I'd really love to one day form an opinion and post it on 2+2 and not have some insecure kid throw a comment like this in my face.

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, if you're going to go throwing yourself around like you know everything

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Why is every 2+2er relegated to saying pointless stuff like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it's not good advice if the principle isn't communicated well. New players will construe your statement as some kind of truism and make mistakes because they read here that the blinds are late position and start applying that concept incorrectly to other kinds of plays.

I understand your complaint but the solution is to communicate better, not louder.

---

When I read this, my first thought was that I play a lot of tables where 5-6 players (VPIPs 40-80) are going to see the flop and a PFR after me isn't the end of the world unless it causes those other limpers to NOT play the hand. If I get a PFR *and* still get enough players after him, I've got sufficient odds to continue. I also get the benefit of position relative to the bettor, so I will close subsequent post-flop action.

I think good table and seat selection make 54s playable after two limpers if I can expect that a PFR won't kill the action or escalate out of control.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, if you're going to go throwing yourself around like you know everything

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is every 2+2er relegated to saying pointless stuff like this? I don't know sh*t about poker and I don't claim to, either. I'd really love to one day form an opinion and post it on 2+2 and not have some insecure kid throw a comment like this in my face.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been involved in, I think, two threads with you, and in both you've been argumentative and dismissive. I've seen comments from you in several other threads that follow a similar vein.

This comment is a perfect example, in fact...you've been on the boards for a whole week and you're pronouncing what every 2+2er does?

[nit] And if you're going to go around calling other people insecure, you might want to stop trying to sound smarter by using big words you don't know the meaning of. "Relegated" means banished, or demoted to a position of lesser importance, and really doesn't make sense in the context in which you used it. [/nit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, if you're going to go throwing yourself around like you know everything

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is every 2+2er relegated to saying pointless stuff like this? I don't know sh*t about poker and I don't claim to, either. I'd really love to one day form an opinion and post it on 2+2 and not have some insecure kid throw a comment like this in my face.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been involved in, I think, two threads with you, and in both you've been argumentative and dismissive. I've seen comments from you in several other threads that follow a similar vein.

This comment is a perfect example, in fact...you've been on the boards for a whole week and you're pronouncing what every 2+2er does?

[nit] And if you're going to go around calling other people insecure, you might want to stop trying to sound smarter by using big words you don't know the meaning of. "Relegated" means banished, or demoted to a position of lesser importance, and really doesn't make sense in the context in which you used it. [/nit]

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. I've been on these boards a lot longer than a week, sir. Don't make stupid assumptions. And why are you such a nerd when it comes to verbage? You've used the word "Erudite" earlier in an effort to show off your grammatical boner. I'd love to see you use words like this in front of an actual human, and not a computer. Especially a human of the female variety.

And don't act like you don't understand how I used the term "relegated."

FWIW, language is merely a tool of communicating. And, since I obviously communicated well enough for you to know what I meant, well, then heck I guess it worked!

[nit] Newsflash: You can't say what words mean because they only mean what people understand them to mean, and not necessarily what Webster says they mean. Language is constantly changing, and so, relegated might literally mean something in 2005 but it just doesn't matter. Communication is what matters, and I obviously got my point across. [/nit]

When you get out of High School/College, you'll start to think outside the box. You'll realize that what your English teachers taught you doesn't really hold much water, if any.

Paul Phillips had an article about this regarding the term "Penultimate". The term means "next to last", but he claims most people believe it to mean "Greater than the ultimate".

So, what does the word really mean? Webster says one thing, while the apparent vast majority of humanity believes it to mean something entirely different? I guess it all depends on who you are around at the time.

My point is, everyone understands the way in which I used the term "relegated". And nobody cares about the nit-picking definition that you threw at me, which happens to be very similar to how I used it anyway.

Good day, kid.

K's Deal