Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold

lapoker17 · #1 10-17-2005, 04:39 PM

Commerce over the weekend.

UTG (2k) semi-unkown opens for $80. I ($4000) call UTG +1 w Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Agressive, semi-good regular ($2400) calls in SB.

Flop comes 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB leads out for $150. UTG calls. I fold.

Bet/Call. Bet/Call.

SB has TT, UTG has 99.

Anyone raise that flop. I don't think I can just overcall there, can I?

BobboFitos · #2 10-17-2005, 04:45 PM

sure is a tough spot

arod15 · #3 10-17-2005, 04:48 PM

I reraise PF there 9 out of 10 times. Only dont if the player behind is willing too. Also. I think I reraise the flop two. ALthough if A K clubs is out htere a push is coming. Either way. I dont hate your fold postflop, but i hate the preflop cold call.....

lapoker17 · #4 10-17-2005, 04:52 PM

I tend to give an unknown non-moron UTG raiser a little bit of credit - I'm not really liking "isolating" w QQ and 7 players left to act anyway.

Percula · #5 10-17-2005, 05:32 PM

Tough one!

I might raise the flop to find out where I am at, but if called or raised, ouch, even tougher place. I think I make the fold, then kick myself for not having a better read.

I agree it is smart to give an unknown and a "semi-good" player credit. An UTG raise is strong more times than not from someone new to the table, and a "semi-good" player flat calling out of position needs some respect too. The way it played out it could very well have been AA vs KK and not two middle pairs.

fsuplayer · #6 10-17-2005, 05:35 PM

i overcall in this spot sometimes and see the turn action.

I think i like raising a little better though.

this becomes alot easier live, but those are my lines online.

lapoker17 · #7 10-17-2005, 05:44 PM

When I folded I was, of course, thinking about the turn and river - which were both brick unders BTW - I think the river paired the bottom card or something. So, I'm overcalling on 3 streets? I guess they could both slow down on the turn, but am I betting there if checked to? I folded to avoid making these decisions, though I guess the betting would have been different had I called on the flop.

Ulysses · #8 10-17-2005, 05:48 PM

I would almost never make that fold in a live game.

MTBlue · #9 10-17-2005, 05:51 PM

I reraise this preflop to define my opponents hands and to make the flop decisions easier. UTG could easily have aces or kings but after reraising you will have a much better picture of his hand strength. The flop fold is tough. I'd don't know what games conditions were like but generally this is a good place to pop it. It's a good squeeze play where villains could put you on a set and fold a better hand or put you on a draw and call with a worse one. I think this is my play of choice against everyone but most astute players. UTG could easily have AK with overcards and a gutshot and would likely call the flop bet to peel a card off or JJ, TT who are both unlikely to raise this flop. The SB I think would reraise AA or KK preflop here to try and get you out of this hand. Smooth calling AA or KK in multiway pot out of position is always nightmare. Set, draw or smaller pair seems like his most likely hands. I think the raise is worth the risk but then again I raise too much.

If called I check this turn and call any reasonable bet on the end and 1/2-2/3 of the pot value bet if checked to me.

Note: My ring game is a little rusty. I've been playing 5/10NL 6max primarily.

lapoker17 · #10 10-17-2005, 05:54 PM

It was, of course, the fact that SB bet out that lead me to fold. I thought he was capable of doing that with a set, or a huge draw - looking to get it all in. Sort of a "he knows UTG raiser must be strong" and will raise with 1 big pair move. I was wrong.

Had UTG been checked to and bet, I would naturally call.