Picking off continuation bets

[TheWorstPlayer]

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Ridiculously standard.

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Really? Wow. I'll have to try this.

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Just to clarify: I only meant postflop. Preflop I'm re-raising 110% of the time.

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The extra 10% makes all the difference [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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That's why I'm a WCP and you're in the kiddie pool, son.

[beset7]

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Ridiculously standard.

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Really? Wow. I'll have to try this.

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Just to clarify: I only meant postflop. Preflop I'm re-raising 110% of the time.

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Oh. Ok I don't feel crazy anymore.

But if you raised pf you aren't checking the flop HU w/ a two flush on the board, no? So raising PF changes the whole hand. You are just saying if you mis-clicked and called PF the rest of the hand would play out like this?

[GrunchCan]

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Ridiculously standard.

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I don't get it. Please explain. (I'm only talking about postflop)

There's two possibilities; we're ahead a draw or a bluff, or we're behind a better hand.

If we're ahead of a draw and we just called the flop, then we must think that the opponent's going to bluff again on the turn. If not, then we should raise the flop and hope he calls. But then we bet the turn, which forces the draw to fold. That's bad.

If we're behind something like a set or 2 pair, then we're drawing very thin and have almost no equity. Opening the betting on the turn is only asking for trouble. Are we folding to a min-raise? Why did we put ourselves in this situation in the first place where we have to think about calling a turn min-raise from an opponent who has position on us and is thinking?

It seems like this line (calling the flop, leading the turn) maximizes our losses when we are behind, and minimizes our gains when we are ahead.

[Ghazban]

Check/calling the flop and leading the turn is better than checkraising the flop when pot size management is important. If you checkraise the flop, villain gets 3 opportunities to put more money in (after your c/r, on the turn, and on the river) but by leading the turn after calling the flop, now he only has two (raising your turn bet or betting/raising the river). Furthermore, draws have a lot more equity on the flop than the turn so, if villain has a draw and plays back at us on the flop, we could easily fold the best hand (or end up all-in with only two outs). He's far less likely to play back on the turn when its a brick. At low limits, very few hands worse than hero's will raise the turn so, if he gets raised, its easy to get away. Many worse hands will call, however (TPGK, flush/straight draws).

[yvesaint]

Yeah, uh, if you're 'picking off continuation bets', I think this works better when you have air. If Villain is behind in this hand, you want him to stay in the pot. If Villain didn't hit but is still ahead, check-call flop, bet blank turn usually will push him off overcards. Which is what we want - we take his continuation bet, knock him off his hand, and it doesn't matter what are hand is.

[crosse91]

i make this play with any 2.
There are 3 good ways to pick off continuation bets w/o any cards at all.
1. Bet into PF raiser (semip-effective)
2. Reraise flop (More Effective)
3. Call flop lead turn. (Most effective)

number 3 is espically profitable if a scare card comes.

Again, i don't need ANY cards to make these moves. They're where most of my profit comes from.

However in this hand you have the goods. BUT RERAISE PREFLOP. That makes this hand so much easier. Also-to the OP why are you so afraid of monsters in the closet? " He could have a set, or aa, or kk" They're not going to have these hands MOST of the time. And there's only one way to find out. RAISE

now to grunchcan.
When on a bluff-
most opponents won't fire the second barrel, which is why that move is profitable. Also, this a case where anti-position comes into play. I WANT to act first so can put the pressure on him to call my large pot-sized bet. This is where many fold. Yes donks will draw and call down but you have to be selective in how you use this move. Use it against people who will fold and are afraid of monsters. Bluffs fold here to your show of strength as do most mediocre hands.

Now, i am folding to a minraise when i am making this move or any sign that he has a good hand. He calls the turn? I check fold river barring improvement. He raises-i fold. But usually he's folding which makes this an +EV move.



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It seems like this line (calling the flop, leading the turn) maximizes our losses when we are behind, and minimizes our gains when we are ahead.

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How is check raising better? Also, this precisely why i bet it on bluffs-it shows so much strength that many opponents fold. This statement proves why its a great bluff/semi-bluff to run.

However, when you've got the goods, i prefer a check-raise. Or just lead the damn flop and turn.

[GrunchCan]

This sounds like an argument for leading the flop...?

[crosse91]

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Check/calling the flop and leading the turn is better than checkraising the flop when pot size management is important. If you checkraise the flop, villain gets 3 opportunities to put more money in (after your c/r, on the turn, and on the river) but by leading the turn after calling the flop, now he only has two (raising your turn bet or betting/raising the river). Furthermore, draws have a lot more equity on the flop than the turn so, if villain has a draw and plays back at us on the flop, we could easily fold the best hand (or end up all-in with only two outs). He's far less likely to play back on the turn when its a brick. At low limits, very few hands worse than hero's will raise the turn so, if he gets raised, its easy to get away. Many worse hands will call, however (TPGK, flush/straight draws).

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This is an excellent point. The biggest improvement i have made in my game is pot-control. Always be thinking ahead in the hand and the possible amount of money won/lost.

[Ghazban]

If you lead the flop, you could get raised by a drawing hand, thereby wrecking your pot management efforts.

[GrunchCan]

Thanks for the great explanation. This post goes on my list. It covers many useful topics.