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  #1  
Old 07-20-2005, 02:56 PM
frappeboy frappeboy is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 132
Default I get no respect!

Seat 7 is an average player who I didn't think would make this play without aces or atleast an ace kicker... He showed down (Q 9) 9 after the hand was over... No respect!! But now with this information he will pay me back with interest later on..

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (9.10 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls (all-in)

5th Street - (5.70 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___all-in

6th Street - (5.70 BB)

Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___all-in

River - (5.70 BB)

Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___all-in

Total pot: (5.70 BB)
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2005, 03:17 PM
beta1607 beta1607 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 101
Default Re: I get no respect!

I dont see how you call the raise on 3rd and fold for one more Small bet on 4th. You have to at least see 5th here.
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2005, 03:52 PM
frappeboy frappeboy is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 132
Default Re: I get no respect!

I folded 4th because

A) The 2s paired his door card
B) The guy to my left hit an ace

That ace is a very scary card when you don't think your opponent is capable of re-raising without atleast pocket aces or an ace kicker... In hindsight you are definitely right though and I know to call in this spot next time against him.
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  #4  
Old 07-20-2005, 05:12 PM
Roland Roland is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: rolled up again
Posts: 343
Default Re: I get no respect!

I agree that it’s a turbo-fold on 4th, big pot or no. Even if you knew seat 7 doesn’t have to have aces or an ace kicker, that doesn’t mean he can’t have them. And the other guy paired his door. You’re either way behind or a little behind blah blah…
Oh yeah, semi-dead 9s… the games are good. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #5  
Old 07-20-2005, 06:02 PM
zoidswallet zoidswallet is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 28
Default Re: I get no respect!

[ QUOTE ]
I dont see how you call the raise on 3rd and fold for one more Small bet on 4th. You have to at least see 5th here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[ QUOTE ]
I folded 4th because

A) The 2s paired his door card
B) The guy to my left hit an ace

That ace is a very scary card when you don't think your opponent is capable of re-raising without atleast pocket aces or an ace kicker... In hindsight you are definitely right though and I know to call in this spot next time against him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I reraise 4th, the guy pairing his door card doesn't scare me that much (considering a 2 just hit seat 8), the reraise should give you a feel for where you are in the hand. In this situation the reraise would've (should've) made Seat 7 fold, then Seat 8 should fold his lone pair (which he only called with because he sees trips unlikely, your fold, and Seat 7's lack of a reraise).
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2005, 06:27 PM
Roland Roland is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: rolled up again
Posts: 343
Default Re: I get no respect!

[ QUOTE ]

I reraise 4th, the guy pairing his door card doesn't scare me that much (considering a 2 just hit seat 8), the reraise should give you a feel for where you are in the hand. In this situation the reraise would've (should've) made Seat 7 fold, then Seat 8 should fold his lone pair (which he only called with because he sees trips unlikely, your fold, and Seat 7's lack of a reraise).

[/ QUOTE ]


I think “getting a feel for where you are in a hand” is overrated. You simply pay too much for that information; what’s more, it often won’t be accurate. What do you do if the guy who paired his door 3-bets? Now do you fold for one more small bet?
The rest of your analysis is based on the results and therefore no good, sorry.
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  #7  
Old 07-20-2005, 06:38 PM
vintage_sara vintage_sara is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1
Default Re: I get no respect!

I agree with both of Roland's posts.
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  #8  
Old 07-20-2005, 06:55 PM
zoidswallet zoidswallet is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 28
Default Re: I get no respect!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I reraise 4th, the guy pairing his door card doesn't scare me that much (considering a 2 just hit seat 8), the reraise should give you a feel for where you are in the hand. In this situation the reraise would've (should've) made Seat 7 fold, then Seat 8 should fold his lone pair (which he only called with because he sees trips unlikely, your fold, and Seat 7's lack of a reraise).

[/ QUOTE ]


I think “getting a feel for where you are in a hand” is overrated. You simply pay too much for that information; what’s more, it often won’t be accurate. What do you do if the guy who paired his door 3-bets? Now do you fold for one more small bet?
The rest of your analysis is based on the results and therefore no good, sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly don't consider these kinds of raises to be expensive, or innacurate. It's not like they're being done on every single hand, they're almost reserved specially for hands like this. And, how are they not accurate? If Seat 1 3-bets, then you call. On 5th street you should know where you're at in the hand, and if necessary, you can get out before the bets increase.

The rest of my analysis is based on the results, so? I offered my advice and then outlined how the hand would have played out, if the advice was followed. If you'd like me to give an alternate ending (for example, what to do when a player we thought would fold, decides to raise instead), I can do that as well.
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  #9  
Old 07-20-2005, 08:34 PM
Roland Roland is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: rolled up again
Posts: 343
Default Re: I get no respect!

[ QUOTE ]

I certainly don't consider these kinds of raises to be expensive

[/ QUOTE ]

I call putting in one or two small bets when I’m most likely behind and probably badly beaten, maybe even in two spots, expansive.


[ QUOTE ]
or innacurate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have been more accurate myself - it’s not only that the information you get might not be accurate, but that it might not gain you enough to overcome the price you paid to get it. In this hand, a raise will make the pot so big that folding kings up on 5th could be incorrect and you are forced to chase. So you paid for information, but it didn’t change the way you played the hand. That is, you paid and got nothing in return.
There is a good article about his topic here .

[ QUOTE ]
The rest of my analysis is based on the results, so? I offered my advice and then outlined how the hand would have played out, if the advice was followed. If you'd like me to give an alternate ending (for example, what to do when a player we thought would fold, decides to raise instead), I can do that as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, add these scenarios:

Seat 1 has trip deuces.
Seat 1 has two pairs.
Seat 7 has AA9A.
Seat 7 has 9A9A.

and whatever combination of them you wish.
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