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  #111  
Old 07-09-2005, 01:06 AM
J_B J_B is offline
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Default Re: AQs playalong

[ QUOTE ]
I cowardly bet, that I don't get shown a hand he that beats me but would not have called with and he folded.

But I think I was good even if I checked behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually do usually bet this flop, probably the turn and sometimes the river. I actually like the bet if you've been ramming and jamming the whole way. It could make an opponent fold his under pair when he put you on a 9 - Of course this would go back to my just calling preflop.

I do understand 100% that YES we have an equity edge preflop almost every time. BUT postflop we do not have an edge unless we pair our A,Q, or flop the flush draw (using Pokerstove for this.) Perhaps I missed something here.

I was under the impression that HEPFAP was more written with Casino play in mind and for to make a good player a better player. Casino players from what I have seen a very poor. In fact, they seem to be worse than online players IMHO. This is a broad statement though and of course you will have games with good players, but generally at least in the Chicago area the players are poor.
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  #112  
Old 07-09-2005, 01:15 AM
J_B J_B is offline
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Default Re: AQs playalong

There is one other thing which might have been obvious. if we have an edge only at most 1/3 of the time, we will lose 2/3 of the time. By raising this we just cost ourselves an extra SB every 3 times. That might not be much, but I believe that in itself would make this a -EV move???
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  #113  
Old 07-10-2005, 02:28 AM
J_B J_B is offline
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Default Re: AQs playalong

I must apologize for my previous post, it made absolutely no sense. I was tired at the time and not thinking clearly.
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  #114  
Old 07-10-2005, 08:48 AM
oreogod oreogod is offline
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Default Re: AQs playalong

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is the only correct answer - anything else is wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

i hate this answer and i think it is totally wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is wrong. You probably have the best hand...by betting you give opponents the chance to make the mistake of folding when they should call, a lower pp may fold in EP not wanting to get CR (unlikely but still possible), by not betting u give your opponents "infinite odds" -- basically letting them draw out with their crap T7 on u. Sounds like a plan. Bravo.

Preflop raiser or not, they checked to you, the board is awesome for your hand. 949. You cant ask for a better flop if u miss. Not only that, u have a pot that was raised preflop, called by a ton of limpers. Make a stand, improve your winning chances and bet. If u are behind, u have outs.

To the man who said anything else is wrong...I suppose it is, especially for a weak tightie.
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  #115  
Old 07-10-2005, 08:51 AM
oreogod oreogod is offline
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Default Re: AQs playalong

I havent read all of this thread yet, but some of these replys make me want to kill my cat. Way to much weak tightness.

Personally, Id love to get CRed by an EP limper on this flop.
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  #116  
Old 07-10-2005, 09:06 AM
oreogod oreogod is offline
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Default Re: AQs playalong

[ QUOTE ]
Ok I'll try. If someone has a 9, we are drawing dead, and we will surely hear from them on the turn, so its an easy fold if raised. If nobody has a 9, there just isn't that much to fear, sometimes they will have a pocket pair that they are weakly calling down with, and sometimes they have a weird hand with a 4 or now an 8 in it. But the cards we fear the most (non Ace or Queen facecards) are nowhere to be found, and everyone always chases on the flop with their overcards etc because that is an ugly flop and they don't think you have anything either.

Betting the turn allows us to: possibly (though usually not) get a better hand to fold, like a small pair that now gives up thinking you must have an overpair to keep betting, or maybe a 4 that just gets scared. It also allows us to get a free showdown if there is some chance our AQ high is best (if bet into on the river its an easy fold). Finally if we improve on the river we can keep betting like we have been naturally and gain extra bets.

Here is the important thing, if we DO by some chance have the best hand, we would love someone to fold any hand that has live outs against us. The pot is so big giving them a free card here and letting them catch a pair on the river would just be awful.

I'm telling you guys, start with the mentality that your opponents never have anything and then adjust as they present evidence that they do. Its much more fun, optimistic, confident, and profitable than assuming they always have you beat.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, use numbers. Count the combinations of hands. Makes things much brighter.

Bet the flop, Bet the turn, Check the river. Simple.

And seriously, raise preflop. You equity is huge, punish limpers for the mistake of limping with trash...your preflop expectation outweighs your postflop expectation here. IT IS A HUGE HUGE MISTAKE TO LIMP HERE.
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