second nut flush draw

Soh · #1 10-30-2002, 01:50 AM

Hello,

good 10-20 game

Bad player (BP1) raise in early position. Another bad player (BP2) call 2 bets cold. Cut off (OK player) who just posted call. SB fold. I call with QhQd in the BB. 4 handed.

Flop came Ah4h2h. I check. All check to the last player who bet. I check-raised. Both bad players called 2 bets cold. OK player re-raised. We all call.

Turn came Ah4h2h-3h.

What's my play?

Soh

D.J. · #2 10-30-2002, 01:58 AM

Correction, you have the third nut flush draw. You better hope no one has a 5 let alone a K. Besides that don't bet your hand and then be timid when you hit it. What did you want to see on the turn, the Kh. Life's not always that easy. Personally, I would bet and if raised muck, especially if there was a call behind the raise, b/c the call just might be the 5h. Anyway, bet it and see where you're at, you're only afraid of 2 cards in the deck at this point.

-D.J.

Jim Brier · #3 10-30-2002, 02:26 AM

When both players call two bets cold on the flop after you have check-raised the original bettor, I think you should simply check and hope no one has the Kh or the 5h. Someone with either of these two cards will raise knowing they have the best hand.

Mason Malmuth · #4 10-30-2002, 02:32 AM

Actually, this is not a bad hand to check twice. If you're against aggressive players, you check, and no one bets, by checking again you might induce a bluff.

MM

Kevin J · #5 10-30-2002, 02:35 AM

A bad player being in a pot can protect you against bluffs from good players. But against a bad player and an Ok player (or a great player)... Now I'm not sure how good I feel about check/folding. And I don't think I'd want to check and guess twice all the while drawing stone cold dead, so I'd probably bet. One slight nit- You have the 3rd nuts.

Just curious, why did you check/raise the flop?

#6 10-30-2002, 02:45 AM

I really don't like the flop check-raise. THere's really no need to eliminate anyone.

I would check the turn, and if no one bets, bet the end. You should have a hard time folding, so you want to encourage others to bet lesser hands.

There is a similar example in HPFAP.

hope it worked out.

Soh · #7 10-30-2002, 02:19 PM

Dan Z

I don't think check-raising was the only play, but one good thing about it is you can charge them to draw. I would be more than happy to see a player with Jh or Th cold-call 2 bets.

Soh · #8 10-30-2002, 02:23 PM

> One slight nit- You have the 3rd nuts.

One slight nit. I never siad I had the 2nd nuts. I said, what to do with the second nut "flush" draw. Techinically, straight flush isn't a flush, is it? I don't know.

Soh

#9 10-30-2002, 03:19 PM

soh
check-raise on flop was wrong.call is best
turn-check - read action respond to turn play . did you win the pot?

Kevin J · #10 10-30-2002, 04:17 PM

You are correct! It's just that I stopped caring about the nutness of my flushes ever since I made the NUT flush and lost 25 big bets on a board of K9777.... On my second day of playing poker I started ranking flushes in accordance to ALL the other nut hands... [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]