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#1
02-04-2005, 10:41 AM
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15 30 Live hand...
Good live 15 30 game...
UTG is the villain in this hand. I haven't played with him very much but he seems to be a typical loose passive player. He limps UTG. Four others limp and I limp in cutoff with KcTc. Small blind completes, big blind checks. Flop: Ks 9s 2c. Checked to UTG who bets. UTG + 1 calls. I raise, UTG three bets, UTG + 1 folds, I call. Turn: 3c. UTG bets, I raise, UTG calls. (this is where I thought I messed up) River: Ts. UTG checks and I bet.... Comments, especially my turn play, would be greatly appreciated. 
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#4
02-04-2005, 11:17 AM
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Re: 15 30 Live hand...
I think this comes down to your read as to whether he has a K (which seems relatively likely given his betting) and particularly whether he's likely to have a worse kicker than a 9. Even loose players don't play UTG with K8 or worse very often, and I'd be surprised if he were betting something like A9 into so many players, so I'd say you were behind until the river, making a raise on the turn a bit overly adventurous, in my opinion.
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#5
02-04-2005, 12:01 PM
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Re: 15 30 Live hand...
Your play up until the turn looks pretty standard. I have a problem with your turn play though. You describe the villain as loose passive which presents a two-fold problem here.
First off he is unlikely to be betting and 3-betting on this flop with just a flush draw while out of position due to his passive nature. That narrows his range of hands to a real holding, and more than likely at LEAST top pair. So the second problem is what is his minimum holding here. Assuming at least a king in his hand you have to figure his kicker beat yours. If he has K9 then he has two pair and if he has better than K9 he has you outkicked. I can't really see too many players limping in with K8 or worse here UTG. You did pick up the club draw on the turn which is nice. However, if he does have either of a flush draw (unlikely) or simply a king with a good kicker, then he won't be laying down to your turn raise probably. This means that you would have to be making it for value. You are borderline on the odds for that I think (it's late and I don't want to count bets right now). Now say you do hit your two pair or flush on the river. He will more than likely check to you on the river due to the turn strength you showed and you will collect one more bet probably for a total of 3 big ones on the turn and river. If you had simply called behind on the turn, he would probably bet the river even if you hit and you can raise him for the same 3 bets. The difference is that you open yourself up to a turn reraise by him if he has a huge hand like a set, and you may even call the river bet afterwards for a total of 4 bets lost. The only way your turn raise is good is if he is indeed on the flush draw and you can charge him the maximum. My guess is he had KQ or maybe a set, although I doubt the set due to his river check. If you can read him well enough to put him on the flush draw, then bravo - well played. If not, then just call the turn.
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#7
02-04-2005, 12:14 PM
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Re: 15 30 Live hand...
[ QUOTE ]
Call the turn! You lose the least and win just as much by raising his river bet when you improve. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry i now see the 10 was a spade making three to a flush he may have checked the river to any black card but I still call the turn bet
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#8
02-04-2005, 03:24 PM
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Re: 15 30 Live hand...
does anyone just call the flop here?
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#10
02-04-2005, 06:28 PM
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Re: 15 30 Live hand...
[ QUOTE ]
Good live 15 30 game... UTG is the villain in this hand. I haven't played with him very much but he seems to be a typical loose passive player. He limps UTG. Four others limp and I limp in cutoff with KcTc. Small blind completes, big blind checks. Flop: Ks 9s 2c. Checked to UTG who bets. UTG + 1 calls. I raise, UTG three bets, UTG + 1 folds, I call. Turn: 3c. UTG bets, I raise, UTG calls. (this is where I thought I messed up) River: Ts. UTG checks and I bet.... Comments, especially my turn play, would be greatly appreciated. [/ QUOTE ] honestly: there isn't a single street other than the flop that i like... preflop given the utg and FOUR other limpers you must raise KcTc in position as it will build a nice pot for a hand that does well in big pots, especially w/ loose passive people there who will pay you off. on the flop, it may even be correct to fold, but your play is not bad and if it is a mistkae its a relatively small one.... on eht turn however, that raise is horrible after being bet into AGAIN by a loose "passive" player...he will have you crushed after 3 betting the flop every time and his being loose brings his fold % down to 0 given the action... on the river, given the turn raise, you must check...no worse hand is calling and it looks like you lost bigtime to two pair or a small set. -Barron
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