QQ against maniac

jtr · #1 12-16-2004, 12:22 PM

Opponent in this hand was super-aggressive: 40% VPIP, 11% PFR, and an off-the-scale postflop aggression level. (The actual number was 37, but obviously it's a small sample size -- only 34 hands. So to be fair he might not be a maniac and may have just had some good cards lately.)

Party Poker $50 No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter

Button ($169.2)
Hero ($50)
BB ($53.9)
UTG ($102.05)
UTG+1 ($57.45)
MP1 ($29)
MP2 ($79.45)
MP3 ($48.5)
CO ($43.1)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP2 raises to $4, 3 folds, Hero (poster) calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($9) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $5, Hero raises to $15, MP2 raises to $60, Hero?

On the flop my logic is that I'm happy to see that QQ is an overpair, I check because this guy is so aggressive he's sure to bet it (although come to think of it that's foolish and I probably should have bet anyway and hoped for a raise). Then when he does bet I put in a decent sized raise. He then pushes enough money to cover my stack -- I'm inclined to put him on AJ and call, but is this wishful thinking?

DBowling · #2 12-16-2004, 12:41 PM

I think this is really close, depending how much of a maniac he is. He could easily have QJ, KJ, AJ, or a flush draw. He could also have JT, AA, KK, or a set. Because he could have so many different holdings that you are ahead of, I would have prefered to see you get more money in preflop. Make it $10 straight, and he will come along with all of the above hands and maybe even some worse. And if he truly is a maniac, he will play it poorly. You will be very closely tied to the pot after youre pf reraise and bet on the flop, making the decision much easier.
Its $31 more to you, i say call or fold, either isnt that much worse than the other. You're right, your sample size is too small to draw any clear info from.
I think if ive been running well, i call this. If ive been running bad, and may be apt to tilt, i fold this.

VanVeen · #3 12-16-2004, 03:28 PM

Fold. It's generally prudent to assume your opponents are reasonable until proven otherwise, so after your opponent reraises your check-raise (a strong move) all-in we can't be making too large of a mistake to think he's holding, at the very least, AJo, the only hand besides AKo that you're a significant favorite over. Even when he's holding AKo he still has ~30% equity in the pot. When he's holding TT, JJ, KK, AA, AKs, you're a dog. At a glance it should be obvious that his range of hands has significantly more equity in the pot than your hand does, so a fold should be almost automatic.

If he's truly a maniac (can't draw such a conclusion from such a limited sample unless you've seen acting foolishly) and his range of hands is much wider, call. If you're unsure, fold. Even if his range includes a bunch of flush draws it's still close given the HUGE equity edge he has when he's holding sets/higher overpairs and the comparatively modest edge you have when he has only a flush draw.

FWIW, I would have gone with a stop and go unless this guy was especially daft.

Edit: I should mention real quick that I don't think many opponents would reraise all-in with AJo or AKo, so although there are more AJ/AK hand combinations, I don't think you'll see them as often at showdown as you would if your putative 'reasonable opponent' pushed AJo and AKo each time he was holding them. Hence the "HUGE" equity edge your opponent's range of hands likely has.

AncientPC · #4 12-16-2004, 04:02 PM

I'd reraise pre-flop to see how much he likes his hand.

If he pushes I'll probably fold unless he's pushed all-in with crap hands before.

If he smooth calls and QQ is an overpair on a flop I'd check raise all in.

Pokerho · #5 12-16-2004, 04:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd reraise pre-flop to see how much he likes his hand.

If he pushes I'll probably fold unless he's pushed all-in with crap hands before.

If he smooth calls and QQ is an overpair on a flop I'd check raise all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be my play against a maniac. But this guy doesn't fit my definition of maniac. I'd call him loose aggressive. After all, 40% isn't THAT out of line, and 11% pf raise is hardly insane. My maniacs are usually around 60% or more VPIP and 25% or more pf raise.

Having said all that, it's still probably a pretty solid play against loose aggressive players.

amoeba · #6 12-16-2004, 04:27 PM

Well, the post does say maniac. : )

but yeah. its tough spot to be in. I think reraise preflop is pretty good though.

Wayfare · #7 12-16-2004, 04:27 PM

Why not reraise preflop? You want to tie him to the pot early, when you know his requirements are loose. You are really only afraid of two hands here, and I think that sometimes you have to just jack it up on the bully to show that you mean to back this hand with the rest.

jtr · #8 12-17-2004, 02:30 PM

Thank you for the feedback.

It's a tricky situation on the flop, I think, but overall your comments have convinced me that it's too soon to label this guy a true maniac. Which leads me to think I should have folded, when in fact I went all in. Results: villain had AA and MHING.

Good advice to put in a reraise preflop, however. I guess I was too locked into automatically thinking of QQ as a hand you want to raise but not reraise with preflop. But against a guy with 11% PFR, QQ has a lot of equity and I think a preflop reraise would have made the rest of the hand a lot easier to play.

Again, thanks.

DavidC · #9 12-17-2004, 03:19 PM

OOC, why didn't you raise PF?

Once you hit the flop, this gets to be quite nasty.

DavidC · #10 12-17-2004, 03:26 PM

Arg... I've committed the standard 2+2 pet peeve that always bugs me... I've commented on the first error without taking too much consideration as to the rest of the hand.

So let's pretend that the call was a mouse error...

Now what, once we see the flop? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(Truth is, at this point, it's a tough decision, beyond my experience, but raising PF is really important for this hand; you probably get the point by now.)