AKs hits flop, faces pot bet

[Wayfare]

So you're the guy who min-raises me all day on party!

Want your money back? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ericlambi]

Since when is a $15 raise (1/2 pot) a min-raise in a $1BB game?

[amoeba]

well..it is the minimum you can raise. actually thats $14.25.
but it is the min raise.

anyways, I don't think its that bad. sometimes the minraise reps more strength than a bigger raise. and here you are definitely raising for info/trying to fold out a tying hand instead of raising for value.

I don't find the minraise that bad here although it has a bad rap at 2+2.

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]


why are all of you guys saying folding is too weak? You can find another spot.

[/ QUOTE ]


If you’re going to fold on the flop after hitting TPTK simply because the preflop raiser bet the flop, then you shouldn’t have called preflop to begin with as you got the flop you wanted.

I like check-calling here against more aggressive opponents and check-raising vs. more passive ones. Leading out on this flop is unlikely to fold hands better than yours but will chase away ones worse than yours. You also can get a read on what hand he might have, and I would rule out a set here as those hands would bet smaller than the pot. AA/JJ/TT/AK/AQ are all possible.

--Greg

[ericlambi]

OK, so it's slightly above the minium raise, but it's also more than 1/2 the pot and it's almost 1/3 of a buy-in at the table. Not exactly chump change in this situation. If Wayfare is calling/re-raising all raises like this because they are "min-raises", then maybe we should be asking him if he'd like his money back.

[Wayfare]

Hi Eric,

My first statement was sarcastic, and here's why:

Are you going to check/fold when your min-raise gets called? Are you going to fold if you get reraised even when you are getting 5-1? I dont think so in either case. I see a couple of benefits to the min raise -- it might get AQ pot stuck, but it sure isn't leaving you any wiggle room if you are beat. I would either decide to go all the way with this hand or not on the turn, and min-raising is one way to go all the way. I do not think it is the best way, and here's why:

I think calling and reevaluating is a better play all around. You can check it down if he checks back on the next street, and you can evaluate your pot odds better based on the previous action. You can also check-raise the turn all in to try to snap off another AK and scoop. You're in a better spot to maximize your winnings and minimize your losses; i.e. when you are ahead he will keep putting in money but you don't give him much chance to get off the hook. If you think you are behind you should fold now -- not an atrocious play. The main advantage check-calling here has over min-raising is that he won't fold a pair of jacks or something of that nature based on your "call," (and might put in more on future streets) whereas a good player would fold it if he was minraised.

I was sort of joking about the "money back" comment, but I hardly ever see this being a good play. I think if you look around at the posts I make on these forums you will see that I usually am not the one giving money back. Just FYI since you have all of 17 posts (and a quarter of those on this one thread).

And by the way, you seem to not understand what a "min raise" is. It is the raise of the smallest amount you are allowed to raise, which is usually the bet you are facing at the time. Now there are $1 min raises and $100 min-raises, but they are all min-raises.

[amoeba]

I agree fully greg. however usually I don't have this problem as I lead out on the flop with TPTK. Since the hero made the mistake of checking the flop and clearly does not feel comfortable playing for the rest of his stack, perhaps folding and taking the $3 loss as a lesson learned is not that bad a way to go. That was all I was implying.

[ericlambi]

Well, I personally am never stuck in this situation because I bet out pot-size on the flop and fold to a re-raise. However, yes, if I get re-re-raised, I am folding even at 5-1 (although I only count 4-1). I personally have terrible results going all-in after being re-raised with TPTK. If it is a tourney, that's one thing because you are stuck either way, but I'd prefer to save that $16 and re-load for $34 rather than $50.

Like I mentioned, you really are stuck if you get only called. Unless a scare card comes, and I'm not really sure what that is -- Queen maybe, I'm probably pushing in on the turn praying for a fold or split pot. Check/fold seems a valid option here also, unless the bet is something pathetic like $5.

Note that I'm basing the raise on a substantial amount of fold equity. I think this guy is going to raise in this situation a large percentage of the time regardless of whether he hit the flop or not.

[Wayfare]

When you lead this flop and get raised, you are folding TPTK already? I don't like it...

[the machine]

Before i say anything.... BET THE FLOP Its a tough position now since villian hasnt been around long and its hard to tell if hes playing tight or not. I think you call this one and see what he does on the turn. Its unlikely that he has a set unless it is 6's because with all the pre-flop action if he had hit a set of k's or q's he would figure someone for another king or queen and try to slow play this. I think you are up against 3 possible hands, (besides a bluff); aa, aq, or kq with kq being the most unlikely since he was utg+1. Hard to tell though because hes only been at the table for a few hands. Call and see turn. Try to represent a stronger hand then him by betting the turn now. Only way to get out of that checking mess you started =)