Hand #1 -- How To Play This Under Pair On A Paired Flop In Wild Game?

[Knockwurst]

10-20 (1/2 kill) local B&M game. Wild game with pots routinely over $300, and at times pumped up to $400-$500 by super LAG and his maniacal friend, who is making it three bets with hands like 85o, hitting it, and putting most of the table on tilt. 5-7 players seeing the flop for two, three and four bets with three to the river. In short, the Perfect Storm.

Kill on super LAG Button -- UTG+1 limps, UTG+2 calls, maniacal MP raises, LAG MP2 reraises, folded to Hero in CO with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] calls three bets cold (?!?), super LAG on button caps it, blinds fold, everyone calls four bets. 6 players -- 24 small bets.

Flop is T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Checked to Hero, who bets, super LAG button raises, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls (?!?). 3 players -- 30 small bets.

Turn is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, super LAG button bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls. 2 players -- 17 big ones.

River is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks, button bets and Hero calls.

While the three bet cold call pre-flop may be dubious, I feel like once I was in the hand I was committed to seeing the hand down because of the size of the pot.

I would be particularly interested in reading insights on how to play a pocket pair just under a pair on the flop against two other players. I guess in a big pot I have to stick around particularly if there isn't a lot of action on the turn. If the UTG+2 cold caller on the flop checkraised the turn or even bet it out I'd have to think about folding, right? Any comments welcome.

[mmcd]

I'd be a little worried about UTG+2 calling 2 cold on that flop, but seeing as he did that and then folded to a single bet from a maniac on a complete blank turn, I take it he is no one worth worrying about. Once he drops I probably get a check-raise in on the turn, but if I don't I certainly bet the river. (Assuming SuperLAG here really is a SuperLAG he could have a 4, a 5, pocket 22-88, Ax, Kx, or absolutely nothing)

Also, 3-bet the maniac on the flop (and hopefully he'll cap it) here since UTG+2 seems like a pretty weak player. This is a big pot and your hand is vulnerable. I'd be willing to bet that UTG+2 might call 2 cold but then fold when it gets back to him if you 3 bet and maniac caps.

[Nightwish]

A completely wild game with multiple maniacs can be difficult to play in because it's tough to get position on all of these guys.

In this particular hand, if the maniac and LAG MP2 are jamming it with random hands like 85o, you need to cap preflop (unless you think the super LAG on the button will cap himself with any two cards, and then it doesn't matter).

I like your flop bet, but why no 3-bet? You likely have a better hand than the button, so the only question is whether UTG+2 has anything. If he doesn't have a T, your 3-bet and the button's cap may actually get him to fold his overcards right there.

I would also bet the turn for precisely the same reason. You want the button to raise, get rid of UTG+2 and then just call down.

But again, this line only works if the button is wild. And yes, you're committed to a showdown unless you're facing 2 big bets cold or something crazy like that.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be a little worried about UTG+2 calling 2 cold on that flop, but seeing as he did that and then folded to a single bet from a maniac on a complete blank turn, I take it he is no one worth worrying about. Once he drops I probably get a check-raise in on the turn, but if I don't I certainly bet the river. (Assuming SuperLAG here really is a SuperLAG he could have a 4, a 5, pocket 22-88, Ax, Kx, or absolutely nothing)

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I don't like check-raising the turn because many wild players will abandon their bluff and fold right there. Not to mention that there's a chance that you're behind. After UTG+2 drops, I would much rather have the button keep on firing with his 2 random cards.

[mmcd]

In my experience, these types of players will often call with any board pair or even as little as 1 overcard here, even though they are a longshot to improve and maybe drawing completely dead. Pocket pairs will almost always call because they likely aren't drawing dead, and these guys like nothing more than winning a big pot with a 2-outer on the river.

Maybe I've just been lucky to run across SuperLAGS on the more ridiculous end of the spectrum.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
10-20 (1/2 kill) local B&M game. Wild game with pots routinely over $300, and at times pumped up to $400-$500 by super LAG and his maniacal friend, who is making it three bets with hands like 85o, hitting it, and putting most of the table on tilt. 5-7 players seeing the flop for two, three and four bets with three to the river. In short, the Perfect Storm.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats all the description i need to declare: THROW YOUR NINES AWAY!

this is a textbook (HPFAP) example of a situation in which you have a hand that cannot improve easily past the flop, is easily outdrawn, and will not have anybody making mistakes against in big pots.

even TT goes down in value in these games b/c the only mistakes the crazies make is going 4 bets preflop...their post flop play is nearly flawless as they should call almost every time with almost every conceivable draw. pot size dictates it...so turn around to those 9s and say, "how my dic-tate" biatch....and toss em...


anyways, given the 3bet call preflop i'd bet as you did on the flop. but when an undercard comes on the turn i'd bet again to force utg+2 to call 2 big bets cold (he's not wrong to call with AK here so you want him OUT!!). he'll probably fold to that since you are now likely to 3bet it and he's not gunna like that. if he really is a SUPER LAG, then he can very likely have a hand much worse than 99...its life.

down the river given a bet-raise-call on the turn i'd check and call.

-Barron

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]
THROW YOUR NINES AWAY!

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If its the game and the players I think it is, that's not a good idea. These guys will give you so much action if you flop a set and you can pretty much expect 4-6 way action, even with it being three bet preflop.

They will be right to call with any draw, but a lot of times it will just be middle pair paying three bets on the turn trying to make a second pair and drawing dead.