Things I've learned from playing PLO/8

[TGoldman]

Some of these are obvious, some of them I had to learn the hard way. Please share your comments or any short lessons that you've learned.

1. Your implied odds when drawing to full-house or flush are not as great as drawing to a straight. Especially when out of position.

2. Players have a difficult time folding any kind of set. Flopping the higher set-over-set is very profitable. Don't be the person unable to fold your set when facing unfavorable circumstances.

3. Position is huge at PLO/8. Use it. Especially by stealing liberally in late position shorthanded pots when it's checked to you.

4. Punish weakness when people min-bet. Consider raising with a hand that you would have otherwise called.

5. Nut hands allow you to value-bet the river, which can be a huge difference in money when stacks are deep between checking behind and making a value bet.

6. When someone makes a bet of less than the full size of the pot after being checked to on the river, he is likely making a value bet with the nuts hoping to get paid off.

7. When you're pot committed and out of position on the river, if you have any reasonable kind of hand, shove your remaining chips into the pot. Otherwise, you'll allow the villain to put his remaining chips in when has a winner or check when he's a loser. Don't give villain the option.

8. "Give the opponent credit for having what he represents. This maxim of course has a number of exceptions, but will hold true mostof the time. Unless you are playing with marked cards, it is necessary to fold a number of winning hands to play the game in an overall winning manner. There is no emasculation that takes place when you get bluffed out of a pot. The opponenet is entitled to make a clever play once in a while." - Bob Ciaffone

[graarrg]

It might be obvious.. but the nut low, despite its seemingly many quarterings, is worth potting in large pots in many situations without accompanying high. When scare cards hit the board, you can knock out straights, two pair, sets, and the like that will scoop you the pot (even BAD players don't call their whole stack when a scare card hits).

I'm a PL noob though. Feel free to shoot holes in my "discovery."

edit: I think Ray Zee's book has stuff on raising in limit to knock out better highs, but in this case, it can be done from any position, any time, if your read is right. and it can be done with no high to speak of.

[TGoldman]

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It might be obvious.. but the nut low, despite its seemingly many quarterings, is worth potting in large pots in many situations without accompanying high. When scare cards hit the board, you can knock out straights, two pair, sets, and the like that will scoop you the pot (even BAD players don't call their whole stack when a scare card hits).

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I think you touched upon one of the reasons why I enjoy playing PLO/8. The high side and the low side of the pot can mess with each other by applying a lot of pressure to the other side. Strong hands in one direction can totally blast weak and medium strength hands in the other direction out of the pot entirely. It reminds me of a game of chicken.

Yeah, it's always fun to have to call all-in's with top 2 pair on the river, and just saying your prayers to the poker gods that it's good.

[Wintermute]

Great post.

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Some of these are obvious, some of them I had to learn the hard way. Please share your comments or any short lessons that you've learned.

1. Your implied odds when drawing to full-house or flush are not as great as drawing to a straight. Especially when out of position.

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Explain this further? I don't disagree, I think, but redraws are a bigger problem for str's.

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2. Players have a difficult time folding any kind of set. Flopping the higher set-over-set is very profitable. Don't be the person unable to fold your set when facing unfavorable circumstances.

3. Position is huge at PLO/8. Use it. Especially by stealing liberally in late position shorthanded pots when it's checked to you.

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Careful, against cagey players you want to use position to check behind with a medium draw; stealing sometimes invites a chk-raise that forces you to fold what would've been a free, lucrative draw.

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4. Punish weakness when people min-bet. Consider raising with a hand that you would have otherwise called.

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From winningonlinepoker.com (maybe the best piece of strategy advice I've ever read):

In any big-bet game, you will find players who like to make "min" bets: They bet the minimum they are allowed, the size of the big blind. In some big-bet hold 'em and pot-limit Omaha high games, I've seen players who have done this with a real hand. No one bets min in PLO8 with a hand that would be happy to call a pot-size raise. (The only exception is players who are smart enough to realize that the opponents know this, and adjust their play accordingly. These players are very rare.) This applies to every betting round.

The opponent may call the pot-raise (but most of the time he will not), but it is never with a hand that wants to play for a big raise. If he does call, you will usually find him with a hand like a flush draw, straight draw or low draw that was hoping to take cards off cheaply. Don't be the nice guy that gives cheap cards to these draws. On the other hand, if you have a longshot draw at the nuts, feel free to call along hoping that no one else wakes up and makes a big raise. Still, be sure you are hitting to the nuts, as you don't want to have to pay off a raise if you hit your hand. Second-best hands are incredibly expensive in this game.

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5. Nut hands allow you to value-bet the river, which can be a huge difference in money when stacks are deep between checking behind and making a value bet.

6. When someone makes a bet of less than the full size of the pot after being checked to on the river, he is likely making a value bet with the nuts hoping to get paid off.

7. When you're pot committed and out of position on the river, if you have any reasonable kind of hand, shove your remaining chips into the pot. Otherwise, you'll allow the villain to put his remaining chips in when has a winner or check when he's a loser. Don't give villain the option.

8. "Give the opponent credit for having what he represents. This maxim of course has a number of exceptions, but will hold true mostof the time. Unless you are playing with marked cards, it is necessary to fold a number of winning hands to play the game in an overall winning manner. There is no emasculation that takes place when you get bluffed out of a pot. The opponenet is entitled to make a clever play once in a while." - Bob Ciaffone

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8 very important. Achilles heel of many players (me included)

[TGoldman]

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1. Your implied odds when drawing to full-house or flush are not as great as drawing to a straight. Especially when out of position.

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Explain this further? I don't disagree, I think, but redraws are a bigger problem for str's.

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I gave that point because oftentimes I'll use implied odds to justify calling a pot-sized bet getting ~2:1 on my money for a ~4:1 flush draw. For example, this hand that you posted to FCP the other week. In that case, you had the low locked up and were drawing to a flush. You hit your flush, bet the pot, and surprise no one paid you off. It happens all the time. Opponenets will see the board enable a flush or full-house and tighten up. Especially when you're out of position, it's difficult to get paid off. I've found straights don't have this same problem. Straights do have problems with redraws, though, as you mentioned.