Is it normal...

[jthegreat]

to have to fold a gajillion flops in a night? I've been getting killed lately in PLO8 and I'm HOPING that a large part of it is just variance.

Most of my flushes are losing to rivers pairing the boards... and that's if I can even hit the flush in the first place. As I was typing that sentence, I just lost another pot that same way. Unreal. Also had sets lose to people going all-in on draws and hitting them all the time, etc... You get the idea.

So just how much variance should I be experiencing? It just seems like I rarely flop flush draws, can't always play them when I do, and things like that. I'd always heard that O8 was LESS swingy than holdem but it's been the exact opposite for me. It's been ridiculously bad, to be honest.

So I guess I'm just looking for some kind of confirmation that it's normal to play 20-25% of hands and yet fold just about every flop.... normal to have suited aces rarely make a flush, etc... I'm really at the point where I just can't take it anymore unless it changes.

[Ribbo]

Two words: Weak Passive.

[jthegreat]

Thanks for the reply. Mind taking a minute to explain what in the world you mean by it and how it's supposed to help?

[Wintermute]

It does sound like you are suffering some negative variance. However, some of the things you wrote imply that it's not just frustration at bad luck that is hurting you, but that instead you may not have the best understanding of the differences between O8 (limit or PL) and hold 'em.

For example, flushes are going to come just as often in O8 as hold'em--just as often as they should, statistically speaking. I know you know this, so I'm attributing that "suited aces rarely make flushes" comment to pure frustration. However, in omaha, a flush is much less likely to hold up than in hold'em, because a paired board makes a full house for your opponent much more frequently. This and analogous concepts are the crux of omaha, and if an understanding of that is not ingrained in your brain, I'd suggest doing some reading so that it becomes second nature.

The same thing goes for flopped sets falling to draws--this is a part of life in omaha. It is not uncommon, by the way, to flop top set and still be trailing in the hand %-wise to a big drawing hand. I'd suggest you use twodimes to check on %'s at the conclusion of a hand you feel you should have won; a lot of the time you'll see that the hand was much closer than you imagined, and perhaps you were even trailing when the money went in.

[Chamonyx]

What your first responder was probably getting at was that if you have the nut flush you should be making it too expensive for people to draw at a boat. This is especially the case if there is not yet a low on the board on the turn. The reason it is called Pot-Limit is because you CAN bet the pot at any time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

As the second responder indictaed, there are many nuances with Omaha. The only addition I would make to his comments are that in a split pot game, you always need to be looking to scoop. So if you have the nut flush on a low flop, with no possibility for low, you can be very exposed to someone free-rolling you.

Enjoy

[jthegreat]

Well, first off, I do understand the differences between O8 and hold em and how some hands don't hold up nearly as well, etc... I'm just tired of them NEVER holding up. lol As far as making it too expensive to draw to a boat, I AM, but they still always call and win way more often than they should. That part of it has to just be variance.

Slowly I'm picking out things that I don't understand. Like, for instance, I've found that I nearly always have to bet small into a flush draw in order to be able to draw. If I check, it's nearly always checked around to someone who bets big and makes it so that I don't have the odds to draw. Is betting into your draws standard in PLO8 or what? It's the only way I've found that works.

[jthegreat]

I guess overall my question is... how often is it that you flop a high AND low possibility? Because it almost NEVER seems to happen for me. Lows are pretty common, but not the highs and thus I don't even have a chance to win anything.

[Chamonyx]

It depends on hand selection and position. With good position you don't need both ends to take it down.

[jthegreat]

at $25PL you do. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] People don't fold.

[emptyshell]

What site are you playing on? Some sites target specific players and give them bad cards (usually these players have jewish sounding names.) Sad, but it's part of life.