A hand from a first time poster

#1 08-10-2005, 10:44 PM

Hi everyone, I've been lurking for about a month now and studying the game seriously for 3 months and finally got the courage to get a hand analyzed by you guys.
This might seem like a simple hand for most, but I'd like advice for every street, perhaps I should have been more aggressive and pick up another bet or two.
Thanks in advance!
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.
My first question for this hand is whether or not I should have raised out of the BB here, although I'm sure it's not a clear yes or no answer. I think in hindsight I feel I should have raised because I was fairly sure UTG+2 wasn't going to re-raise me and I could take the lead in the hand.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

I check here because I didn't raise PF and didn't hit anything on this flop, not sure if this is faulty logic for this many people and this flop. I call the bet here because of the size of the pot and because I think my 2 overcards are good if i hit one of them. Was I getting the correct pot odds to call here?

Turn: (5.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

I check here hoping to get a raise from someone close to my left for a CR.

River: (5.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Button folds.

Pretty self-explanatory, I was fairly sure I had the best hand
Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qh Ac (one pair, aces).
UTG+2 has 6c 7s (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 7.75 BB.

closer2313 · #2 08-10-2005, 10:48 PM

Raise Preflop.

Bet the turn. Dont get fancy.

gonzopro · #3 08-10-2005, 10:59 PM

I think you already have a good idea what you did wrong here.

Preflop: Raise - as you said it puts you in control of the hand and the posters may fold (they make it a mandatory raise IMHO)

Flop: Bet if you raised preflop. Good chance you have best hand and may get mid/bottom pair and gutshots to fold

Turn: Bet. Missing a bet here is a big leak.

River: Bet

You must get a bet in on the turn to protect your hand!

Doc7 · #4 08-10-2005, 11:00 PM

Yeah better to get people to call hoping to hit something on the River than to check the turn through (and let someone maybe hit 7s up for free, which could have happened)

I'd definitely have bet on the turn.

Nfinity · #5 08-10-2005, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi everyone, I've been lurking for about a month now and studying the game seriously for 3 months and finally got the courage to get a hand analyzed by you guys.
This might seem like a simple hand for most, but I'd like advice for every street, perhaps I should have been more aggressive and pick up another bet or two.
Thanks in advance!
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.
My first question for this hand is whether or not I should have raised out of the BB here, although I'm sure it's not a clear yes or no answer. I think in hindsight I feel I should have raised because I was fairly sure UTG+2 wasn't going to re-raise me and I could take the lead in the hand.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

I check here because I didn't raise PF and didn't hit anything on this flop, not sure if this is faulty logic for this many people and this flop. I call the bet here because of the size of the pot and because I think my 2 overcards are good if i hit one of them. Was I getting the correct pot odds to call here?

Turn: (5.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

I check here hoping to get a raise from someone close to my left for a CR.

River: (5.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Button folds.

Pretty self-explanatory, I was fairly sure I had the best hand
Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qh Ac (one pair, aces).
UTG+2 has 6c 7s (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 7.75 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of people have a hard time finding a raise from the Blinds with hands like the Big Offsuit Broadways. It's because at this stage you have a hard time of letting go of aggression when you flop bad in a multiway pot with a lot of money in it. The general consensus is that it is correct, just not variance friendly.

Another thing is those posters, man. You have to raise to either(A)Put them to a decision to fold random trash hand(good for you) or (B)put them to a decision to actually pay to see a flop with random trash hand(good for you). It's ok I recently made a similar mistake playin' A'sceered at the 2/4.

Flop is top notch.

OK, judging from the action on the flop, the most likely person to bet is UTG+1 who is just 2 seats to your left. Your best option is to bet out, most likely you will get some if not a lot of overcallers. If the flop bet had come from late positon a CR might very well have been the correct play.

Yeah definetely bet the river..

In the future don't include the results in the post. Those people who are interested shouldn't be and those that have trained themselves not to be don't need any temtation to picky up bad habits.

aK13 · #6 08-10-2005, 11:03 PM

The problem with check/raising the turn is that someone might have you reverse dominated on this board, so he will bet again, you raise, and you get 3bet but can't fold. If 3 bets go in on the turn, you're in trouble. However, 1-2 is definitely optimal. If you bet, someone with a weaker ace might raise here expecting that you are bluffing the scare card, and you can definitely fold if another player 3bets it from him, since I can't see any realistic hand you beat that would 3bet (and you don't risk the opposite of it getting checked through). If it is bet/raised to you, it's a thin call IMO, since you might still have the best hand, but getting about 4:1 with likely only the flop bettor + raise behind is thin. If you bet flop bettor raises and 3bet by that same player behind, I'm fairly sure you're beat.

EDIT: I think that a lot of posters are behing results oriented after seeing the turn checked around, and not thinking about WHY betting the turn is good.

P.S. To reiterate, preflop raise is a must. Betting the flop is bad.

damaniac · #7 08-10-2005, 11:04 PM

I don't think I'm betting this flop UI into 5 other players. I have the best hand almost never, and I'm folding a pair or gutshot just as often. Just because you raised preflop, doesn't mean you have to bet. Most of the time you should, but this is one time I see no reason to.

Doc7 · #8 08-10-2005, 11:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
thinking about WHY betting the turn is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

here's one I didn't say, that Ace coming gave any of those posters playing a junk hand with a 4 in it a double-belly buster.
What are you going to do if the river is a 2 or a 6? pray as you click call with your aces that you're good. Gotta gotta bet this turn.

gonzopro · #9 08-10-2005, 11:14 PM

Good point damaniac. It's usually not a good idea to bet into 5 players with A high but I was assuming 1 or 2 of the posters would fold preflop to a raise but this is obviously speculation.

#10 08-10-2005, 11:28 PM

Thanks alot for the advice so far. I can definitely see where 1)I need to not be playing scared from the blinds and 2) protect my hand instead of trying anything fancy. I am definitely going to start posting hands more often.