Post flop play #2

Phil Van Sexton · #1 03-09-2005, 10:11 PM

5th hand of a 30/3. The villian called once earlier, then folded to a pre-flop raise. Otherwise, no read.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t785)
Hero (t830)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t705)
Button (t735)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t785)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t80, 3 folds, Hero calls t80, 5 folds.

Flop: (t185) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t80, Hero raises to t200

adanthar · #2 03-09-2005, 10:21 PM

You did this solely because of the bet amount, right?

Not a play I generally make in the 30's but I have in the 50's. I think you can get away with it here with a slightly better read than what you have but I don't horribly mind.

1C5 · #3 03-09-2005, 11:04 PM

Very interesting play, I don't know if it is good or right but it is interesting. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Travis · #4 03-09-2005, 11:16 PM

You know I really like the play. You're 90% sure he doesn't have the ace and is "raising to get information." You give him that information. The problem I have with the play at the Stars $20+2's is that the guy goes ahead and calls you with his JJ or whatever he has. Always getting myself into trouble with this sort of thing at the $20+2. Hopefully it works better at the Party $30+3.

Irieguy · #5 03-09-2005, 11:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
5th hand of a 30/3. The villian called once earlier, then folded to a pre-flop raise. Otherwise, no read.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t785)
Hero (t830)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t705)
Button (t735)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t785)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t80, 3 folds, Hero calls t80, 5 folds.

Flop: (t185) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t80, Hero raises to t200

[/ QUOTE ]

This whole play is negative $EV at the $33's, starting with the preflop call.

At the $55's I'd do it against a player I knew well.

At the $109's I'd do it against a player I thought was to LAGy for his own good. At that level I prefer to give those players a speed bump before the blinds matter.

If you are going to do it, the raise amount is perfect.

Irieguy

Dominic · #6 03-10-2005, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5th hand of a 30/3. The villian called once earlier, then folded to a pre-flop raise. Otherwise, no read.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t785)
Hero (t830)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t705)
Button (t735)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t785)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t80, 3 folds, Hero calls t80, 5 folds.

Flop: (t185) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t80, Hero raises to t200

[/ QUOTE ]

This whole play is negative $EV at the $33's, starting with the preflop call.

At the $55's I'd do it against a player I knew well.

At the $109's I'd do it against a player I thought was to LAGy for his own good. At that level I prefer to give those players a speed bump before the blinds matter.

If you are going to do it, the raise amount is perfect.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

perfectly analyzed.

curtains · #7 03-10-2005, 04:37 AM

I don't like the preflop call at all. Determining whether its okay at a $50 or $100 tournament doesn't make much sense, because the stack sizes would be different.

Irieguy · #8 03-10-2005, 04:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the preflop call at all. Determining whether its okay at a $50 or $100 tournament doesn't make much sense, because the stack sizes would be different.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on... the stack ratios could be the same.

If I'm playing a $55 and my note on UTG says: "likes to make probing preflop raises from EP, habitually bets the flop and folds to heat..." then I'm sure you can see why you might play this situation.

But that player doesn't really exist at the $33 level. At the $33 level, the note would say: "likes to make probing preflop raises from EP, habitually bets the flop and will then call pretty much any raise no matter what..."

Irieguy

curtains · #9 03-10-2005, 05:06 AM

A raise to 80 with 10-15 blinds isn't a probing preflop bet. I don't like calling with 800 chips here with so many players left to act after someone raises to 5-6x the Big Blind.

I don't think it's terrible to call, but I don't really like it.

TheAmp · #10 03-10-2005, 06:11 AM

The most valuable "read" we have here is the $33 buy in.

Why are you putting any chips in after a raise with 88, when you can expect to be called later with big hands?

Your play MIGHT be debatable versus tough opponents in higher buy-ins with specific reads (I would still fold pre flop). IMO, Re-raising a bet with three overcards (including an ace) to a post flop raiser is not a smart play. It is outsmarting yourself.

Losing this hand would have gained you +EV in the long run.

S.J.