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#31
12-06-2005, 03:40 PM
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Re: Athiests; a question.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] atheists do not believe in a soul or reincarnation. [/ QUOTE ] Buddhists are atheists, and major branches of Buddhism believe in reincarnation. Souls, likewise, can exist without God existing. Atheists don't believe that God exists. Period. [/ QUOTE ] Kip, disagree. See the below item taken from http://atheism.about.com/b/a/208011.htm Discussion: Atheists and Souls A forum member writes: There is nothing in atheism that excludes a belief in souls and the like. An atheist can believe in vampires, werewolves, magic, ghosts and faeries all they want and still be an atheist so long as they do not believe in a god or gods. After all, many Buddists believe in reincarnation, which would by necessity require the existence of a soul, and are atheists also. It's certainly true that atheism is compatible with belief in souls or an afterlife — atheism only excludes belief in gods. At the same time, though, belief in souls or an afterlife is more often associated with theism than not. If you are an atheist who believes in souls or an afterlife, what is the context for your beliefs and why do you hold them ? [/ QUOTE ] I fail to see how your quoted text does anything but confirm what I previously stated. The question you bolded, could be rephrased: "why are some atheists irrational"? That doesn't mean they aren't atheists... it just means that believing in souls and reincarnation is irrational. [/ QUOTE ] Most atheists I know are extremely rational. And in my personal opinion belief in a soul if you are an atheist is IRRATIONAL. After reading more in the above mentioned site, I must admit there were some people who claimed to be atheists as well as believing in a soul. Thus the reason for the poll question. I just have never met any - and I have met many, many atheists. Almost everyone in my family and most of my friends I associate with are atheists. I never really considered Buddists true atheists because of the spiritual aspect of their beliefs - but I am no authority. 
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#32
12-06-2005, 04:07 PM
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Re: Athiests; a question.
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I never really considered Buddists true atheists because .. [/ QUOTE ] Either the entity fits the definition or it doesn't. If it fits, it's an X, if it doesn't, it's a non-X. "True" is almost always superfluous. In the west, I agree with you, soul-seeking athiests are rare. I agree that most are rational, but I know some that are atheists for reasons that aren't all that rational, but they are still atheists, since that's a description of their position on a god, not on how they got there. What other attributes ( trustworthiness, morals, rationality, etc) they typically have is simply outside the definition. If all the atheists I know are french that doesn't become part of what defines atheism.
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#34
12-06-2005, 04:19 PM
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Re: Athiests; a question.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I never really considered Buddists true atheists because .. [/ QUOTE ] Either the entity fits the definition or it doesn't. If it fits, it's an X, if it doesn't, it's a non-X. "True" is almost always superfluous. In the west, I agree with you, soul-seeking athiests are rare. I agree that most are rational, but I know some that are atheists for reasons that aren't all that rational, but they are still atheists, since that's a description of their position on a god, not on how they got there. What other attributes ( trustworthiness, morals, rationality, etc) they typically have is simply outside the definition. If all the atheists I know are french that doesn't become part of what defines atheism. [/ QUOTE ] I understand where you are coming from - and I admit my personal sample size is small considering the number of atheists in the world. It is just I always thought of an atheist as one who does not believe in anything supernatural - God, spirits, ghosts, soul, etc. I admit my definition is not correct. However, I still have never met any atheists that did believe in those things. If you look at the poll results, there are not too many here either. I would really like to talk to a buddist and find out in what context they believe in a soul. It seems that if you are willing to believe in such that a leap to God wouldn't seem far-fetched.
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#35
12-06-2005, 04:25 PM
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Re: Athiests; a question.
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#36
12-06-2005, 04:39 PM
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Re: Athiests; a question.
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http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/fundbud1.pdf [/ QUOTE ] Skimmed thru most of it - interesting. They do refer to God and the realm of God. Do you know how they define this God? If they believe in a higher being or state of existence (God) how are they considered atheists?
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#37
12-06-2005, 04:46 PM
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Re: Athiests; a question.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I never really considered Buddists true atheists because .. [/ QUOTE ] ... they are still atheists, since that's a description of their position on a god... [/ QUOTE ] ... I always thought of an atheist as one who does not believe in anything supernatural - God, spirits, ghosts, soul, etc. I admit my definition is not correct. [/ QUOTE ] There are other words that mean what you want to mean. Naturalist. Materialist. Positivist. Skeptic. If not, you can combine multiple terms to be closer to what you mean.
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#38
12-06-2005, 04:49 PM
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Re: Athiests; a question.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/fundbud1.pdf [/ QUOTE ] Skimmed thru most of it - interesting. They do refer to God and the realm of God. Do you know how they define this God? If they believe in a higher being or state of existence (God) how are they considered atheists? [/ QUOTE ] http://www.buddhanet.net/10-gqga.htm
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#39
12-06-2005, 04:59 PM
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Re: Athiests; a question.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/fundbud1.pdf [/ QUOTE ] Skimmed thru most of it - interesting. They do refer to God and the realm of God. Do you know how they define this God? If they believe in a higher being or state of existence (God) how are they considered atheists? [/ QUOTE ] http://www.buddhanet.net/10-gqga.htm [/ QUOTE ] Thanks, that was a very short and clean read. I will accept that Buddists are atheists (yeah, more of us). Do you have a similar link for their definition of a soul?
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#40
12-06-2005, 05:00 PM
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Re: Athiests; a question.
I'm no authority on buddhism or any other belief system. There are some who believe in gods and insubstantial beings, some who don't. I think my answer to the original question is irrelevant, because I am not capable of knowing. It's very much like the free will question in that regard. It's just circle-walking.
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