T9s play along

[hobbsmann]

10/20 pp. Just sat at the table a couple of orbits ago so no real reads except the button seems kind of donkish (35/5 ish after 25 or so hands).

We'll skip the preflop decision because we can't have a play along if I fold preflop.

Party Poker 10.00/20.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (14.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
Hero.

give me a line?

[goofball]

(i think folding preflop is bad)

I think the best start is to bet and hope UTG+1 raises.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
(i think folding preflop is bad)

I think the best start is to bet and hope UTG+1 raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with above. Pre-flop isn't close, IMO.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
(i think folding preflop is bad)

I think the best start is to bet and hope UTG+1 raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting to try and coax a raise from someone directly to your left is overrated, because it doesn't work often. Plus you're not getting anyone to fold a hand that counterfeits any of your outs. The best you can hope for is to knock out some silly redraw hands that could eff you, but most of the legitimate redraw hands will call two cold anyways. But you're not getting a 7, T, or JQ to fold, so I'm not sure how you're cleaning up any outs, as if it gets raised you definitely need to hit.

Basically trying to get him to raise is so you can spike the ten of spades and then still miraculously win when another spade comes on the river because the two bets on the flop knocked out the J of spades. Meh. <font color="white">&lt;3 lmd</font>

[gh9801]

I don't agree with betting out here. I'd rather check and see the action. More often than not I'll c/r here though

[me454555]

bet and hope UTG raises

[me454555]

The pot is big and getting anyone w/overcards to fold is a good thing. I'd be happy enough just to get a J out of there just in case of a redraw. On top of that, getting everyone else to call 2 cold isn't that bad either b/c we still have enough equity to 3 bet.

[ep510]

You're in bad position, your hand might not be best, and your hand, if best at this point, is very vulnerable. I like checking to see what the action is. If it goes villian bets, x number calls, I'll call and probably donk safe turn hoping for a raise (assuming that bb and/or utg fold, which will decrease odds for rest of players). A raise on the turn by villian will do you better than a raise on the flop.

[Piiop]

I agree with this post. Betting hoping for a raise doesn't work that often, especially with this board and with no read. Not only that, but there are two players inbetween you and the PFR. I'd check and see what develops and whatever happens will affect my plan for the rest of the hand.

[W. Deranged]

Check.

You will have a great relative positional/informational advantage if you see what happens on the flop. Betting often will not coax a raise, and, even if it does, that won't necessarily protect your hand in a ginormous pot.

I'm approaching this hand from the point of view of having a fair amount of equity but probably needing to improve the majority of the time to win the hand.

With that in mind, betting and hoping to get raised isn't even that desirable, as it only really helps us if it gets us short-handed with non-made hands. We'll be up against better 9s, overpairs, and two pair pretty often here, needing to improve to win. We're never cleaning up our T outs (by folding 7s), never folding out flush draws or better 9s, and only rarely folding out other Ts that may dirty our gutshots. So the promotional value of a "bet-and-hope-to-get-raised" play isn't even that high, in my opinion. We may actually want customers around to pad the pot for our draw.