a couple of notes on the live at the bike....from seat 2 - Page 2

coltrane · #11 02-20-2005, 03:40 PM

RBK,

can you detail the QQ hand step by step with chip counts, etc. starting with preflop - I'm a little unclear about some of the action.....

3rdEye · #12 02-20-2005, 04:25 PM

It looked like that QQ hand pissed you off to no end. I can't blame you. It was like 3 bad beats in the same hand. Painful.

riverboatking · #13 02-21-2005, 01:42 AM

hey coltrane,
i wish i could w/ 100% certainty but i'm a little unclear myself.
this is to the best of my recollection.
i raised in LP to about 100 and was called by the two most LAG's on the table, seat 5, and 6.
flop came 9 high with three hearts.
i had around 5K, seat 5 had around the same, and seat 6 had around 2.5K.

seat 5 led for 100, seat 6 raised to 400, and i made it 1K to go.
seat 5 called, seat 6 folded.
now like i said normally vs. a bet and a raise i would probably be done with the hand, however vs. those two players no way i'm folding overpair+ flush draw in this spot.

on the turn seat 5 checked and i put him all in.
once he called we decided to run the river three times.
as i said in my OP normally i check behind on the turn however if you read my OP i explain why i didn't.
i also mention that if i had my way we would have run it twice however seat 5 said once or three times.

hope that clears things up for you.

coltrane · #14 02-21-2005, 09:48 PM

yeah, after looking at the flop action, I can better understand why you did what you did.....I was under the impression that you flat called seat 6's raise and then seat 5 made it $1k....but with seat 5 just calling your raise on the flop, I can understand your bet on the turn (particularly with his image) as you're most likely ahead in that spot.....only thing one could say is that you might've not re-raised the flop but just called instead.....several reasons for that: if you're against a set you'd love to see a cheaper turn (and save money on the flop and not give seat 6 the option to rereraise), if you're against even just the lone A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you're practically even money so playing a big pot on the flop doesn't give you much equity compared to waiting for the turn, a raise is gonna fold out exactly the type of hands you want to keep in (hands like JhJx or ThTx).....but other than that, I can't fault you for the way you played it - seat 5 happened to have a set that time.....also, for the river (assuming you are comfortably bankrolled for the game) I would've just run it once.....whenever I'm a dog in a pot, I want to run it as few times as possible (namely: once) because the last thing you want to do is decrease variance......

riverboatking · #15 02-22-2005, 01:58 PM

i agree with you in most cases in regard to running the river card.
however with the flush draw i figured the best possible scenario would be to run it twice.
if i miss the first one, well [censored] it pays to run it again, and if do happen to hit the first one then i'm freerolling for the whole pot.
but yeah 3x was lame, and if you watch the episode that is actually what i'm the most pissed about, because i could afford the variance, and running it 3x was a dumb move on my part.

however the reason i agreed to do it is because often times when i'm in the oppososite position i offer to run it either 1 or 3x but never twice.
and i am often in that position with the player in seat five.

turnipmonster · #16 02-22-2005, 03:04 PM

fwiw I always do either once or three as well.

coltrane · #17 02-22-2005, 03:15 PM

yeah, who wants to split a pot?.....it's like a tie in hockey or kissing your own sister.....reason I hate Omaha-8.....

once or thrice... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

riverboatking · #18 02-23-2005, 10:42 AM

coltrane and turnip.

when i'm the favorite i always do it either 1x or 3x, however don't you agree that if you're the dog with a flush draw your best bet in terms of EV is to run it twice?

turnipmonster · #19 02-23-2005, 12:48 PM

it shouldn't affect your EV either way (1,2 or 3 times). I just don't like twice because it feels like a tie/truce/happy ending, and this is war dammit. give me the thrill of the suckout or the pain of defeat, but for godsakes don't just give me my money back.

Rick Nebiolo · #20 02-23-2005, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it shouldn't affect your EV either way (1,2 or 3 times). I just don't like twice because it feels like a tie/truce/happy ending, and this is war dammit. give me the thrill of the suckout or the pain of defeat, but for godsakes don't just give me my money back.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't affect your EV in a normal, unrestricted buy-in game (assuming your BR is big enough to reload to the point where you can match the stack of the weakest players). But let's say you are in a restricted buy-in game. Often chips in excess of the maximum allowable rebuy are worth far more than normal chips. For example, you have $1000 and several weak players also have stacks about that deep but none are deeper. You figure to have many opportunities to bring these stacks down as a huge favorite. If you go broke all you can re-buy is $300 (per the restricted buy-in rules).

Now let's say you are all-in on the turn with a set against a flush draw and the pot is about $2000. Here dealing thrice will rarely result in a situation where you lose 2/3 of the pot or more - in other words you more or less insure that you will come out of the hand with a stack that has a huge positive expectation against the big but weak playing stacks that are likely to oppose you in future hands. Go broke on the hand and you give this up.

That said, most restricted buy in games with jackpots won't let you deal thrice or twice (after writing the above, I just remembered this is the case at the Bike).

~ Rick