Confused by two LP's

2+2 Junkie · #1 11-03-2005, 11:41 PM

Button is loose, but passive (50 VPIP, AF 0.83)
MP2 is a little more loose, but passive as well (71 VPIP, AF 1.00)

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (7.40 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, Button calls, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 bets, Hero folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 15.70 BB

With the turn raise, i figured he hit the straight, then on the river, i thought for sure someone had a straight and I was going to be in the middle of a bidding war.[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Thoughts?

beaster · #2 11-03-2005, 11:52 PM

I'd raise that preflop.

Like the flop raise. 3-bet that turn. Wipe your tears as you call that river.

#3 11-03-2005, 11:52 PM

I probably fold this on the river as well. I would think MP2 probably has at least a better 2 pair and with as passive as he is most likely the straight. I might 3 bet the turn. He could have KJ or even KQ.

I would also raise this hand preflop. KQo in the CO when no one has raised is more than strong enough to raise with. It also may buy you the button and force out the blinds.

#4 11-04-2005, 12:06 AM

Disclaimer - didn't read any replies yet.

If I thought I had even a small chance to buy the button preflop, I would try even though he is loose/passive. With such a connected board, I would wait for a safe turn card to raise MP3 to face the field with 2 bb's. Is it standard by most here to raise the flop? As you played it, I probably play the turn and river the same, as I would also think a bidding war would explode.

2+2 Junkie · #5 11-04-2005, 10:21 AM

I don't mind calling for one bet, but the turn raiser is behind me. Don't you think the fact that he raised on the turn and a passive player wakes up on the river means it could cost me a couple of BB to see if my two pair got busted?

@bsolute_luck · #6 11-04-2005, 10:24 AM

that's the goofiest action i've seen in a long time. except for the river fold, everything is fine.

in limit in big pots, paying off a hand like this isn't a crime on the river as Ax[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] could be calling down too and LPs love any Ace.

2+2 Junkie · #7 11-04-2005, 10:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
that's the goofiest action i've seen in a long time. except for the river fold, everything is fine.

in limit in big pots, paying off a hand like this isn't a crime on the river as Ax[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] could be calling down too and LPs love any Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree it was goofy, so much so that I was completely confused. However, I understand they love aces and that we want to call down in a huge pot like this, but the question here is how many BB do we call for?
1BB- I am fine with and don't mind doing it
2BB- Maybe, but it would hurt
3BB- I would think spewing
4BB- see 3BB

@bsolute_luck · #8 11-04-2005, 11:31 AM

i don't think it would happen but if button raises behind us i fold.

#9 11-04-2005, 12:21 PM

I would have raised PF to try to thin the crowd a bit. One advantage of a call on the river is that it would also ensure that you would see the cards and try to figure out what was going on here.

2+2 Junkie · #10 11-04-2005, 12:26 PM

They both had A's, neither of which were connected in any way to the board. Therefore, the turn raise was a complete bluff, which is unreal for a passive (i played another 75 hands w/him and his AF never went up, actually went down). So they split the pot because their kickers weren't any bigger than what was on the board.
Just didn't know what to do, but right after the results, i could hear Ed Miller screaming, but i thought I would get in the middle of a bidding war.