QJ in mid position on Pokerroom

[Cactus Cactus]

Blinds, 2/4. Opponent- I just started at this table but this guy doesn't seem to be too out of line, not crazy.

He is UTG + 2 (500) and limps, folded to me in the cutoff with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I call, SB folds and BB checks

Flop $14 Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG + 2 bets 14 into me, I call BB folds

Turn(42) 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
He bets 40 into me. Do I still call?? I ended up calling and snagged a J on the river for 2 pair to beat AA.

Now I play a lot and I do not have the feel for no limit yet. As I am reading these pots people are MUCH tighter than limit, so would anyone think about folding the turn?

[flawless_victory]

easy fold on turn.

[creedofhubris]

Raising the flop lets you use position to check the turn.

There aren't really any draws on that board. What hand could you be ahead of when he pots the turn, other than a stone bluff?

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop lets you use position to check the turn.

There aren't really any draws on that board. What hand could you be ahead of when he pots the turn, other than a stone bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

raising this flop is pretty bad, unless villain would fold Aj/Kj/Qj. ("clause A")

it's not a raise for value; no worse hands call.
it's not a protective raise; no draws are being semibluffed, so your top pair is looking either good or bad.
it's not a bluff, as you have a showdownable hand. (Unless clause A applies)

I raise here pf though, or fold it. but i'm stuck in the 6max mode, where i guess overlimping QJo OTB is more standard in full. I like calling the flop, and folding the turn. If he checks the turn I either make 1/2 pot bet and shut down after that, or more likely, check behind and call a bet or bet if I snag a Q or J.

sorta demonstrates the inadaquecies of a hand like QJo. even with position.

[Dr. StrangeloveX]

[ QUOTE ]

Now I play a lot and I do not have the feel for no limit yet. As I am reading these pots people are MUCH tighter than limit, so would anyone think about folding the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold here preflop until you do get the feel for nl. As played call flop, fold turn.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop lets you use position to check the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

how is this line better than just calling the flop and seeing what happens on the turn?

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop lets you use position to check the turn.

There aren't really any draws on that board. What hand could you be ahead of when he pots the turn, other than a stone bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

raising this flop is pretty bad, unless villain would fold Aj/Kj/Qj. ("clause A")

it's not a raise for value; no worse hands call.
it's not a protective raise; no draws are being semibluffed, so your top pair is looking either good or bad.
it's not a bluff, as you have a showdownable hand. (Unless clause A applies)

I raise here pf though, or fold it. but i'm stuck in the 6max mode, where i guess overlimping QJo OTB is more standard in full. I like calling the flop, and folding the turn. If he checks the turn I either make 1/2 pot bet and shut down after that, or more likely, check behind and call a bet or bet if I snag a Q or J.

sorta demonstrates the inadaquecies of a hand like QJo. even with position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the raise because it ends the hand. If he comes over the top, you're done; if he folds, good; if he calls, you're not putting any more money in.

[edge]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop lets you use position to check the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

how is this line better than just calling the flop and seeing what happens on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Although you knock out all the hands you beat, your goal is to end the hand quickly before the pot grows. You're not trying to maximize value from a Q9 hand, you just want to take it down and avoid having to play three streets with a weak hand. If he calls your raise and you don't improve on the turn or river (check through the turn), don't put more money in.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the raise because it ends the hand. If he comes over the top, you're done; if he folds, good; if he calls, you're not putting any more money in.

[/ QUOTE ]

then why arent you doing this with A4, T9, 66... ?

I think if he leads 2nd barrel on a drawless flop on a blank turn once you call the flop it's a relatively easy fold (unless vs a donk) so you lose less there vs better hands.

[amoeba]

call the flop, fold the turn.

I don't like raising this flop, all it does is give out info about your hand with too steep of a price and allows villain to play perfectly.

unless you are also raising the flop with a set on a drawless board as well as raising with crap and villain knows this, I hate a raise.