When to Complete SB w/Garbage

[jedi]

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If you flop badly (which of course you will the overwhelming majority of the time) you simply check/fold.

The profibility of a hand is not only how often it wins but how much it wins.

It's clear that more people in the hand makes 92o worse and worse in terms of how OFTEN it will win, but it improves how MUCH it will win on the occasions it does.



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A couple of things I don't think anyone has pointed out yet. First off, if you flop a monster, who's going to call you? Second, even if you do flop 2 pair, your hand is quite vulnerable to getting counterfeitted. You assume that when you flop a monster, you'll be able to extract enough to make up for the more likely check/fold post-flop occurences. I disagree with that.

[reddred]

The real question is, then, will the extremely rare times that your junk flops a monster ,and it holds up, make up for all the half bets you'd be pissing away in the sb, especially if you frequently play loose/limping tables. I'm not sure, but i think pzhon is saying that it wouldn't, or that completing sb w/ junk against large fields has an overall negative expectation.

[ohnonotthat]

I'm not sure I have ever read or heard a more concise yet crystal clear explanation of this concept.

Attention, beginners -

If you listen to this guy you may not be beginners for very long.

- nh

[Browny]

What about the situation where it is folded around to you in the small blind, do you call with any two against the BB. Raise with say 89s. And if you call with any two, what then do you do if it gets raised behind.

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
What about the situation where it is folded around to you in the small blind, do you call with any two against the BB. Raise with say 89s. And if you call with any two, what then do you do if it gets raised behind.

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This really depends on how frequently the BB will raise, and how agressively he plays on the flop. Against a decent heads-up player, the SB is pretty much a raise or fold proposition. Against a passive player, completing with suited connectors and such may be profitable, especially if it's a 2/3 BB.

If i'm heads up in the BB, I will raise a wide range of hands if the SB completes and usually bet the flop, whether I hit or not. If I have absolute trash, I will take the free flop, bet if I get any pices, and bet about half the time when I don't hit.

If i'm HU in a B&M game I generally chop unless the table is short handed. When short handed please see CORed's post...

I will give this one a try!
Considering two cards that can't be used to make a str8 or a flush u can feel confident if u flop the following hands:

Two pair (using both of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 1:49,
(however this will very likely give u 2 small pairs which are really easy to loose money with if u can't judge when they no longer are the best hand.)

Trips (using one of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 1:73

A full house (using both of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 1:1087


Quads (using one of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 1:9799

If these are the kind of hands u plan to flop the combined odds are:
15:427 ~ 1:28,5

Plz correct me if I'm wrong...

So if u take that into account you never have odds if u don't have a good enough read to KNOW that u will get payed from some LAG player who don't know what he's doing and therefor giving u implied odds. So unless u KNOW that someone will pay u off.. throw the hand away.

That's my way of looking at it anyway.

GL

//SUND

[ohnonotthat]

It's also correct - in theory at least - to call with garbage if you are facing a field of rocks who muck way too often when they fail to nail the flop.

If your opponents ALWAYS call, call with trash and hope YOU hit the flop hard.

If your opponents [almost] NEVER call, call with trash and hope THEY don't [hit the flop hard].

*

This is more of an academic point; it doesn't work well in practice.

Calling with nothing then firing at the flop for drill solely because your opponents are squeaky tight is a poor long term plan -

If you do it repeatedly they won't stay rocks for long. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]