10/20 pot gets bigger and bigger but the board gets worse

AllIn3High · #1 10-19-2005, 06:48 PM

I've been running good at my normal game (5/10 6-max) and my full game needs work so I decided to jump right into 10/20.

This is villians first orbit, so no reads / stats.

I've added my thinking on each street. Please let me know it's messed up. I felt really lost during this hand.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP2 calls.

Ok, limping from MP2, I figure this means a weak hand and free money. Too aggro for full table?

Flop: (5.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, Hero calls.

He donks, this usually means a weak made hand, a draw and very rarely a big hand looking to get 3-bet. So I raise his donk bet. Well.. looks like he likes his hand, I'm gonna peel and see what he does and probably call down on a non-scary board.

Turn: (5.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, Hero calls.

OK, I've improved, the board is scary, so I raise for value, to protect my hand and take a free showdown if I feel like it. I don't exactly welcome his raise, but can't fold now.

River: (11.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Damn scary board, but his play has been weird, he either has a big hand or he has [censored]. I think he has [censored] 1 in 12.75 times, so I call.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

Scotch78 · #2 10-19-2005, 07:18 PM

33 - 3 ways
99 - 3 ways
Q9 - 6 ways
Q3s - 1 way
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q - 2 ways
K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q - 2 ways
A3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 3 ways

I doubt limping with Q3 and 93s are standard for 10/20 fish, so while you're ahead slightly more than half the time, he has a lot more outs so you probably don't have enough/any edge in equity. I would just call down on the turn. And if he'll play the flop this way with AQ, KQ (no spades) or just a flush draw, then it becomes even more important not to raise.

Scott

bobhalford · #3 10-19-2005, 08:25 PM

I would just call the turn and the river. No reason to throw more bets in there when it's clear villain really likes his hand. Looks like a made flush on the turn or a set. I would call expecting to lose.

#4 10-19-2005, 10:57 PM

i dont like rasing QTs in full ring against one limper.

this flop hit him as you said so wait for the turn to raise a safe card, or call down when the scare cards fall.

when you are heads up, its ok to call down. you dont need to protect your hand as if it was multiway. let him bet when he has 4 outs. like i said raise the exoensive street to punish him when the safe card falls.

AllIn3High · #5 10-20-2005, 11:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i dont like rasing QTs in full ring against one limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, as I wrote, maybe that's too aggressive for full ring, but I do it all the time in 6-max. Is a fold better then? I hate giving the blinds a cheap shot at a good flop here.

[ QUOTE ]

this flop hit him as you said so wait for the turn to raise a safe card, or call down when the scare cards fall.

[/ QUOTE ]

You raise his donk bet too, right? I don't know he likes his hand until he 3-bets.

I think my troubles really start once i "improve" on 4th, just hate giving a cheap river to hands I just drew out on but have decent redraws in this big pot.

And since he is unknown he might call and check the river to me with a better hand now fearing i made a flush so I can take the free showdown.

But the consensus seems to be I should just call down on the turn. I'll probably do that the next time.

Borodog · #6 10-20-2005, 12:14 PM

No, a fold is not in order, but a limp is. QTs plays well multi-way. Try to encourage a multi-way pot.

brettbrettr · #7 10-20-2005, 12:15 PM

I like the pre-flop raise. The button is nice.

#8 10-19-2005, 11:03 PM

what are you a baby, you have top pair play it as such. Man id love to have you at my table

Aces McGee · #9 10-20-2005, 12:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm gonna peel and see what he does and probably call down on a non-scary board.

[/ QUOTE ]

This comment came from your reasoning on the flop. I took it to mean that you would fold on a scary board.

By the river, the board has 4 to an open-ended straight flush, and you have neither the straight or the flush.

How much scarier do you need it to be?

Mind you, I'm not criticizing the play of the hand, necessarility; I'm more taking issue with the tendency to change your plan in order to justify calling down.

[ QUOTE ]
Damn scary board, but his play has been weird, he either has a big hand or he has [censored]. I think he has [censored] 1 in 12.75 times, so I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude bet/3bet the flop AND turn, and bet the river on this insanely coordinated board. Do you really see players do this with air ~8% of the time?

-McGee

AllIn3High · #10 10-20-2005, 12:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This comment came from your reasoning on the flop. I took it to mean that you would fold on a scary board.

By the river, the board has 4 to an open-ended straight flush, and you have neither the straight or the flush.

How much scarier do you need it to be?

Mind you, I'm not criticizing the play of the hand, necessarility; I'm more taking issue with the tendency to change your plan in order to justify calling down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that was my plan until I improved. Had the turn been some other spade I would have folded the turn. If the pot hadn't been so big on the river I would have folded.

I postet the hand because I want input, not because I want to be told how well I play, so if changing the plan on this turn card is a mistake please let me know. I'm thinking it might be.

[ QUOTE ]

Dude bet/3bet the flop AND turn, and bet the river on this insanely coordinated board. Do you really see players do this with air ~8% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he was unknown and he played the hand very very strange. I couldn't put him on any kind of hand, and to be honest I was a bit curious as to what he might have. Also, I think he has to bet that river no matter what he holds the way the hand was played, if he doesn't have the straight or flush he can't very well hope to check/call.

Or maybe I just try to find every reason possible to spew chips?