10/20 6max: a quick flop decision - A7o

Surfbullet · #1 08-03-2005, 02:10 AM

Button is a 54/1/.8 over lots of hands, buddy-lister and predictable calling station.
SB is a 46/16/1.8 over 118 hands.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks...

Surf

topspinner · #2 08-03-2005, 07:33 AM

I would bet almost everytime, against only two opponents. Why would you raise preflop if you weren't going to bet this. There is a good chance you are ahead.

JKDStudent · #3 08-03-2005, 07:39 AM

What he said. ^

MicroBob · #4 08-03-2005, 07:43 AM

yup.

i know my flop aggression is super-laggish sometimes...but I'm just having a tough time seeing why you would be checking here.

D.H. · #5 08-03-2005, 09:17 AM

I agree with previous posters. If you check here there is almost no way you're gonna win this hand... and you have the best hand a lot of times. Bet and see what happens.

Surfbullet · #6 08-03-2005, 05:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with previous posters. If you check here there is almost no way you're gonna win this hand... and you have the best hand a lot of times. Bet and see what happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Having the best hand doesn't do me good if I can't make it to showdown with it - I'll get semibluffed out of the pot frequently by draws, and my reverse implied odds are poor - most times the 2 players will have 12 outs against me, likely more. Additionally I can't get them to fold with any ease.

Surf

ISF · #7 08-03-2005, 09:32 AM

I actually think if you have been stealing alot then a check here is alright. It depends on your image and opponents. As there is almost no chance either of these guys folds here to a flop bet I dont think a check is always bad, but If you havent been stealing much or are new to the table I would just bet here.

Surfbullet · #8 08-03-2005, 10:59 AM

I checked here because I can't bet every flop, and this is a good one to check since:

1. any junk connector or 1 or 2 gapper hand has some sort of straight draw or pair on this flop.

2. any other hand has overcards

3. PPs will like this flop.

There are virtually no hands that will fold this flop. I may have the best hand now, but my reverse implied odds are poor given any no pair hand has 6 outs + str8 + FD outs.

I'm going to have to put at least 1.5 BBs in to give myself a chance of winning, and I'll often get semibluffed by draws, which I can't call down if both players are still in the pot.

Additionally, I'm not on the button so I can't take a free showdown if they call my flop and turn bets.

This is a good place to check the flop IMO, but taken in a vacuum there are valid reasons for betting - but how much more would we like to bet a 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] flop?

Surf

#9 08-04-2005, 02:58 AM

No, you can't bet EVERY flop. You're right. But you don't bet every flop anyway, such as those times where you flop a flush or straight or set and decide to sandbag a little. If you feel you need to balance your flop play, waiting to bet out or raise until the turn with your superstrong hands does that.

Some of the other reasons you gave seem like examples of negative thinking, which contradicts a preflop raise you made w/ A7. Your preflop play is an example of positive thinking, an aggressive move you made that would win you the pot right away despite the possibility of AK or AQ or another dominant hand left to act in the blinds. Your postflop fears of draws, etc., are real, but similar circumstances didn't stop you from raising preflop. And postflop, your reward for 1 SB is 7 SB in the pot, which is higher than preflop.

My thoughts are probably superficial, but someone said, if you're going to think, don't think too much.

exist · #10 08-04-2005, 03:06 AM

i always bet my flushes, straights, and sets because if there is one fault that the vast majority of my opponents have, it is that they call too much.

the OP should bet this flop. i think the time to check it might be if he had a QT type hand instead of Ace high.