AK too much action

Cheshire · #1 07-27-2005, 07:21 PM

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Button folds, SB caps, BB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (13 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (17 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB

Does anyone play this differently? This board has alot of draws on it and lots of cards in the range people like to play. My major question is on the flop is there any chance I should fold when it is two bets back to me. Against two pair I either have 3 out or 5 out plus some back door draws. Against a set I guess I am pretty much out of luck and depending on those backdoor draws. The turn is an easy call with the ace of hearts, right? This is a standard call on the river too.

MrWookie47 · #2 07-27-2005, 07:41 PM

Without more reads than what you offered (none), I don't think I can lay it down, but you probably lost to 88 or AJ.

Shillx · #3 07-27-2005, 07:50 PM

You should probably raise the turn here. You really want to knock the CO out if he has outs against you, and the plan is to check behind on the river if you don't improve. Either way you spend 2 bets to showdown (UI that is) but this way you can force the CO to a tough call if you do happen to hold the best hand against the SBs AQ or whatever. And you still get that extra bet in when you make the flushy so it isn't like you are losing value to raise the turn and not the river. Also consider that the 4th [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] might cause them to check the river to you so by raising the turn you might actually get 3 bets in there when you make the flush as compared to 2 should you just call (again you put 2 bets in either way if you miss).

There are downsides as you know, but raising here certainly looks acceptable to me.

Brad

Aaron W. · #4 07-27-2005, 07:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You should probably raise the turn here. You really want to knock the CO out if he has outs against you, and the plan is to check behind on the river if you don't improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the turn raise. I don't care that CO may "have outs against me" because I'm drawing against SB.

The way the action has gone, what reason do I have to expect it's not going to get 3-bet?

Shillx · #5 07-27-2005, 08:02 PM

If the SB is aggressive enough to 3-bet us on the turn with something like AJ, then he is aggressive enough to cap the flop with AQ. It is just that simple....

So if he isn't aggressive, we raise and then check behind on the river. All the while we get that extra bet when we make the flush since he will almost surely check the river if the 4th [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] comes and he doesn't hold a big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. If he is aggressive there is a decent chance that we hold the best hand, and we charge them all to draw.

Brad

Delzek15 · #6 07-27-2005, 08:03 PM

I wouldn't raise the turn because I believe he would 3-bet you. I wouldn't lay it down but your probably beat to A/J

TomBrooks · #7 07-27-2005, 08:30 PM

I like the way you played it. Shillix's idea to raise the turn looks like a possibility, I'd probably just play it the way you did though unless I thought SB probably wouldn't three bet and would probably check the turn. If your flush does come in, you might only be able to collect one bet on the river though.

DeathDonkey · #8 07-27-2005, 08:31 PM

If we raise the turn and they just call I'd think real hard about betting the river unimproved. Maybe I just love value betting.

-DeathDonkey

Aaron W. · #9 07-27-2005, 08:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If the SB is aggressive enough to 3-bet us on the turn with something like AJ, then he is aggressive enough to cap the flop with AQ. It is just that simple....

So if he isn't aggressive, we raise and then check behind on the river. All the while we get that extra bet when we make the flush since he will almost surely check the river if the 4th [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] comes and he doesn't hold a big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. If he is aggressive there is a decent chance that we hold the best hand, and we charge them all to draw.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

So......... I don't get it. Who said anything villain being aggressive here? Did I miss something? Villain has played his hand aggressiveLY, which is very different from injecting a read that he is an aggressive player.

Getting capped on the flop usually means you need more than one pair to win.

Cheshire · #10 07-27-2005, 08:37 PM

sorry about leaving off the reads. I do not have a read for SB, CO usually only plays solid starting hands.

So no one folds this on the flop when it gets back to you capped?